Is my friendship inappropriate?

[Rosegarden47]

I (25f) have been married to my husband (28m) for five years.

I have a close friend, Ashley, who happens to be male. We’ve been best friends since we were about 14. Our relationship has never been romantic. However when we were 17 and both going through rough breakups, got drunk and had sex. Unluckily that one occasion lead to a very traumatic miscarriage. We agreed to never speak of it again, carried on our friendship as before and both started relationships with our now spouses. He’s now married with kid.

When my husband and I were going through fertility issues, at appointments my pregnancy history obviously came up and he learned about the miscarriage. I was completely honest with him and he didn’t hold any grudges over drunken teenage stupidity.

When we got married I moved to my husband’s hometown, so I don’t have many friends locally. Unfortunately since the birth of our daughter 19 months ago, my relationship with my husband has changed, mostly for the worst. I usually see Ashley on average a couple of times a year (though we talk/text regularly), if I’m visiting my family in my hometown. However Ashley has happened to have been visiting my area twice this month, and we’ve met up. Both times my husband was at work. Ashley and I had our kids with us. After the second time my husband, egged on my my FIL, has decided that Ashley is trying to take me away from him. He said he’s not happy with me being friends with someone with our history, I’m not allowed to see him again, possibly with the exception of my husband being present at all times.

I’m not accusing anyone of being an asshole, I know this situation is entirely my fault. I know my husband is insecure and struggling to adapt to being a dad, and I can see where this jealousy has come from his point of view. But I am upset. I know my husband’s jealousy is only going to get worse and it will end with him demanding me to cut Ashley off and that breaks my heart. Ashley has been my rock for 11 years and there’s nothing inappropriate between us. Despite that.. I’m struggling to know if I have I been completely unreasonable expecting my husband to be okay with my friendship with Ashley? Is it inappropriate no matter what because of that one time seven years ago?

I feel ashamed to admit it but I’m scared if my husband demands to go through my phone.. there’s been a few occasions where he has overstepped the line in arguments and Ashley is the only person I can talk to about it. If my husband finds out I told anyone, especially Ashley, I dread to think how he would react

I've been with my husband for almost 15 years. I have never once felt afraid of him. Before that, I was in a relationship like yours, where I did feel afraid from time to time, but luckily I knew it wasn't right - I had grown up with good relationships modelled around me. Would you be happy if your daughter ended up with a man like your husband, who pressured her for sex after giving birth? If not, why is it ok for you? And if you don't want that for her, model a better relationship for her so she doesn't grow up thinking this is normal, so she ends up with someone kind and loving.

It’s easy to say “just leave” on the internet. But it’s not that easy in real life. I lose my home, stability, my husband who I care deeply for and change the course daughter’s life over a handful of incidents to me are very upsetting, but not extreme

I’m sorry if I’m pissing people off. It hasn’t been easy for me to share these things, especially when this issue wasn’t even why I started the thread.

Better than your life! You keep kidding yourself that he is just physically scary but wouldn't hurt you but I guarantee you he will.

Do you want your daughter growing up watching you abused and controlled and thinking that is normal and acceptable from a man? To be told who she can and can't see, what she is allowed to talk about and intimidated when she disagrees with him?

If it was just you, then whatever but you have a child that you really need to be modelling some self respect for if you don't want her in the same situation.

I bet if she were telling you all this, you'd be fit to kill! You'd tell her she deserves better. Why do you deserve any less?

OP please don’t worry about the angry projection from some posters.

For some reason so many people on here feel entitled to an immediate response that their advice was so revelatory that the OP will be immediately turning their life upside down in compliance.

I think you are really brave for sharing - acknowledging what is going on is the first step. Please don’t cut out your friend to pacify your husband - I think you will be needing good friends more than ever x

If I was a close friend or family of yours I would be seriously concerned for you as your DH is abusive.

Sadly it seems to be his nature ( too many instances).
I would be seeking out help personally. I would not be giving up my friend though.

For some reason so many people on here feel entitled to an immediate response that their advice was so revelatory that the OP will be immediately turning their life upside down in compliance.

It’s NOT this.

It’s the refusal to accept how bad things are - of course she can’t just leave an abuser - we’re all aware it’s hard and dangerous.

But she posted a month ago about serious concerns, got lots of advice, and is now posting as if the possibility her husband is abusive is a brand new thought.

And there are a load of us (myself included) who know what growing up in an abusive family does to you.

If OP had said ‘I know this is bad. I am trapped. I don’t know what to do. I need to make a plan but I have to bide my time’ it would be completely different.

This is a man who is physically, sexually, emotionally, and financially abusive. Her denial puts her and her daughter at risk.

And we’ve seen enough in the news to know where it ends up. No one will be offering her sympathy if she’s on the front page of the mail because she stood by when her husband moves onto the daughter.

It’s not just about her now. It may even be about a second poor child she’s bringing into this shit show.

Hard agree. Especially as one of his abusive episodes was when she told him to stop swearing at their baby daughter. He’s already moved onto the child. Utterly sickening.

The loss of your baby at 7 months of pregnancy sounded horrendously sad, and I can see why you link it to your husband’s current state. But it doesn’t make his behaviour something you should accept.

If you reached a stage where he freely admitted it was responsible and was turning a corner, and actually stuck to it, then fine (though I’m afraid I don’t know how you initiate that direct conversation with him). But waiting for it to get better will not help (especially if you are expecting another child).

Unfortunately even really good relationships can go bad. I don’t know how often people change back once the genie is out of the bottle, but reading MN leaves the impression it is very rare. Even if he is fine most of the time, what counts is that you are scared all of the time about triggering the next outburst. That is the same as you being controlled 100% of the time. Imagine the reaction if you treated him the way he has treated you.

The change that comes from ending the relationship will be terrifying to even think about, but you have age on your side, you are still very young. It will get better, however hard it is initially. Please at least contact the organisations suggested by other posters and find out your options, and how the practicalities work (like childcare arrangements and money). You owe yourself and your daughter, and future child, an informed decision, even if your choice is to stay put.

I don't think people are pissed off. We are rightfully concerned for you and your daughter. We can see you are minimizing this abuse. You're operating on a massive amount of cognitive dissonance and people are trying to get you to face reality. Ultimately it's your life, but don't forget that you are also making a decision that is not in your daughter's best interest. If you are really okay with that then there's nothing anybody can say to get you to see the truth. You're so deep in denial that you're sacrificing her welfare to it. So it's probably hopeless to try to snap you out of it. Good luck.

What kind of sick, twisted fuck verbally abuses an infant. This thread is so depressing that I can't stand it anymore. We tried, but she won't get out of denial, so I'm done with it.

Instead of thinking about Ashley so much I think you need to think about your children and your own life and leave Ashley and his wife out if it

Ask Ashley if he thinks you’re in an abusive relationship and you should leave.

If OP had said ‘I know this is bad. I am trapped. I don’t know what to do. I need to make a plan but I have to bide my time’

It’s not that simple or black and white when you are in a situation though is it? How many people can maintain that level of clarity and singularity of mind while still embroiled in a marriage? Why do you think so many women take so long to leave?
These things are complicated and you really need to get off your high horse if you want to provide anything in the way of constructive advice/ support.

What value do you think your judgement and admonishing has in helping the situation of a woman who is already experiencing control , undermining and abuse from the person closest to her? - Who has been scared to open up about what her husband has actually been doing - even to her marriage counsellor - for fear of how others might react?
Finally , she is brave enough to share a little and you start angrily blaming and accusing her , including of being a bad mother and putting her young child in harms way!? Meanwhile (while you sit behind your computer bashing out mumsnet posts about how OP should be a better mother) OP is the one living the exhausting and relentless daily reality of caring for a small child, after losing her first baby and possibly pregnant with a third, no less.

So tell me- do you think this is helpful? How does your behaviour help OP and her child?

OP is being victimised; she needs support, not judgement and blame.If this thread is triggering you because of personal experiences then I respectfully suggest you remove yourself rather than directing your anger at another woman in a vulnerable and complex situation.

Please stop making excuses for him and minimising his abuse. That's the first step. I know it's hard, but you need to start somewhere.

We do understand this and the process of leaving an abusive relationship is often slow and difficult. It took me 2 years to properly leave mine. I had all the same worries and fears you did. Thankfully I was the main earner so I didn't have that worry but all the other stuff - yes. But I have learnt over my life experience, that of friends and my long professional experience that abuse doesn't just stop. Abusive men don't ever change. They might mellow with age but their core beliefs remain the same. My DS was 3 when his dad left the final time and he's now 16 and 99% unscathed by what he lived for his first 3 years. I did manage to protect him from most of it. Like yours, mine wasn't really physical, at least not directly and not very often. But I can tell you with total confidence and certainty that my DS would be a different, less happy, less confident, less secure person if I had stayed with his dad. Guaranteed. He has grown up in a home that is fiercely guarded against conflict, which I made for him. I am proud of that. You can do that too.

The peanut butter situation is another where he is centring himself at risk to you.
So there’s peanut butter, appendicitis, the loss of a child at 7months (which for him was emotional but for you was emotional and physical).

You love him so much and he’s the most stable home you have had.
However he sees you as a possession, and he doesn’t want to share- not with Ashley, not with a child. You exist to validate him. Anything you do that doesn’t validate him- like criticise him, notice his failings, spend time with someone else- is a huge threat he can’t tolerate.

He could change. Perhaps. But only if he wants to, if he can see he is the problem and needs to change. At the moment, you are the problem for stepping out of line.

We all know it’s a big step. But the risk you are taking is enormous. Far better to start to quietly plan, than to get smaller and smaller in the hope he won’t blame you for whatever frustration he experiences. Your DD will need to stay small, too.

There are alternatives. Be brave. And please log out of MN and keep a password on it. He will find this thread hugely threatening.

You still have Ashley - he would help you.

That’s why your H now has a problem with your relationship with him.

You have plenty of reasons to leave, please do so before H realises you are pregnant.

It’s very easy to contact Women’s Aid. Supremely easy. Are you going to?

OP - I think you're getting a lot of people being very frustrated with you which isn't fair - it's incredibly difficult to get the point where you feel ready to leave.

However, as you continue over the next few weeks and months, please remember this thread because as so many posters have pointed out, not a single one of the things your H has done are experienced by most women. There are also lots of things that are very worrying in your posts - from his blaming of YOU for his behaviour, to your fear of being honest with your counsellor, to him controlling what you can/can't say to her. Have you, for example, discussed these specific examples with her - in either your joint or individual sessions? Whhat would happen if you started the next session with her by saying, "after our last session, DH was upset becuase I told you X. It feels like this makes these sessions quite difficult if I can't be honest in them".

Are you going to stop your relationship with this other man? You need to focus on yourself.

You've had so much good advice here from women who have been through similar situations to you. Please do think about what has been said. You only get one life. You deserve to live it to the full, not walking on egg shells and being a lesser version of yourself in order to keep your DH happy. You also mentioned your fear of losing your first stable home. But it's not a stable home is it? It's not an admission of failure to leave an abusive man. Please keep posting, you are not alone.

Hey op, ultimately its your life. Its a shock to hear whats been said i understand that. Take some time to really consider what it is you want to do. No one is saying you need to pack bags and get straight out. Becoming aware of things can help you to see its not right.

I had an ex who was "physically threatening" towards me on a number of occasions, though he only hit me once (the day we split). At the time it seemed somehow okay, but with hindsight he was a controlling and scary person, and the shadow of the experience hung over me for years afterwards. If you have any doubts about whether your DH is such a person, I would keep that in mind going forward - no one should tolerate being dominated by their partner.

Leaving will be hard but it may save your life and preserve your daughters future emotional and mental wellbeing. Staying with this abusive and unpredictable man is accepting a life of emotional abuse for your daughter. She will witness and hear things that no child should ever experience.

The hard times to set yourself up by yourself will be worth it. Please seek help, your GP, women’s aid, your local police, a trusted professional can all help you on that first step. Whichever feels most comfortable.

There is nothing to gain by remaining in this situation but everything to lose. If you can’t save yourself then please save your daughter.