DS wants to charge

[CompleteOvaryAction]

DH and I are planning a big birthday party in the near future - live music , catering, marquis etc, for a joint "big 0" birthday.
Our DS will be in his third year as a music student and we mentioned we'd like his band to play for some of the evening. He wants us to pay him going rate for his services.
I feel that, for close family you waive your professional fee (we'd expect to pay his band mates) but he's adamant he wants paying too.
It feels like he doesn't appreciate that he's only where he is now because we have funded him. Whilst we don't expect "payback" it would be nice if he thought to acknowledge our help with a gesture of his time for our special celebration.
Is this just his inexperience talking? should we stand our ground, or does he have a point?
I'd rather not have him play, and just have him there as a guest if he insists on charging to play. What do you think?

My son is in a band too. I would expect to pay him. I don't expect quid pro quo from my children.

Yeh I think you should pay him and actually why should he do it for free just because you've chosen to? If you're paying his band mates, you're paying him.

The gift thing is separate. If you're willing to pay someone else to do it, why wouldn't you just pay your son.

Parenting isn't an industry
It's a commitment you take up when you chose to have a children

OP - the playing for free is much less of an issue than the lack of birthday gifts. He is still learning and needs you to make expectations clear. I prompt DS to buy gifts for his sister and dad. As there has been consistent prompting each Xmas/birthday it is now almost automatic - I just nudge when the birthday or Mother’s/Father’s Day is. The prompting in teen years means that hopefully this expectation will be imbedded when they leave home.

If one of my teens didn’t buy a birthday or xmas present for us parents, that would be pulled up on straightaway.

To be committed to being a parent is one thing, but where did we sign up for the role of doormat and cash cow?

At cost, means at cost.

If I was say a lawyer, whose performance you are paying for, and my parents asked me to do say, house conveyancing for, I would charge them costs only.

So I would give them the benefit of my legal training and as a practising lawyer, I would have insurance so I would give them the benefit of that too. However if I had to pay out for reports , I would charge them for it. I would not charge them for my time, my knowledge, my performance.

Applying this to their son, if he is a performer, he should already have insurance, and he is a trained musician (at their expense), so I would given them the benefit of both these things including my music repertoire and special requests. I would however pay out of pocket expenses for my son, i.e. mileage, transport etc. The difficulty here is that his fellow band members are not family and this is how they make a living so they do need to be paid...but maybe have mates rates as I am sure it will be a reciprocal arrangement.

I too would be miffed if my sons immediate response was "but you need to pay", it sounds ungrateful. Its an opportunity for him to show his appreciation for his parents and its a bit entitled that he doesn't naturally take this tac.

I also think its a bit entitled that he doesn't give cards/presents to his parents. Does he give to his siblings and doesn't he realise his parents are left out. This does need to be addressed but not by the parents, by his siblings or other family members or maybe his girlfriend.

She said they'll pay the band

I guess op is giving him two options

a) attend a party
b) work at a party

I don't understand why anyone would choose b, if they weren't getting paid (especially when everyone else providing a similar service is)

Unless they are specifically marketing themselves as a function band then this kind of “exposure” means nothing.

it’s not likely to be their target audience & very unlikely to get them future bookings.

the set my son’s band played at a family wedding was completely different to their normal set and required a lot of work.

No way would I be paying him. Get someone else. Very selfish and disappointing of him, yes.

To do something nice for his parents, who are celebrating a big birthday perhaps?

I don't think many (any?) Posters would have had an issue if the DS had said he'd prefer not to perform because he wanted to celebrate with his parents, but to jump straight to 'I'd need to be paid' . Do people really have that kind of relationship with their parents?? I'm so glad I don't.

As someone who has worked in the creative world, I learnt very quickly not to work for mate's rates or "exposure" for anyone. Freebies and exposure don't pay the bills, and are lines which are always trotted out by cheapskates who don't value creative work,. If you give an inch once you can absolutely bet the next time it'll be "oh, but you did it for free/ half price last time for xyz".

Good on the kid for placing a price on his time and all the work that has gone into being capable of getting up on stage and performing.

This. In principal i would refuse to pay him. You do family favours. , especially when they have supported you!

Yep @Magnastorm good for you however remember when the DS wants help from his parents fixing his car, doing childcare, cooking etc he will then need to pay. Womens work is the least valued in society so perhaps we should all just start charging for every little thing we do?

That's a sure way for society to fall apart, in fact as we have started to see. Everything is about money and being paid - the DS knows the price if everything and the value of nothing.

All the time and work which has been enabled, supported and paid for.by those same parents he now wants money from for performing @Magnastorm 😂

The fact that OP has supported him through his degree is irrelevant. Countless parents do that and expect nothing in return. It's part of the deal of being a parent.

Why should the kid play for free? He misses out on a party, there will be costs involved transporting gear and time required for planning set lists and rehersing, plus I can guarantee the next time a party comes up it'll be "oh, but you did it for free last time".

If I were him the deal would be to get paid or not play. Like I said, good on him for valuing his time.

The difference being that this is his livelihood, and he is rightly protecting that. There is a huge issue with people in creating jobs where their time/skill etc is hugely undervalued, and people expecting freebies is a big part of that.

Any problems OP has with presents and all that other stuff is another matter.

Not just you 😂

Hire someone else.

I'd put money on him stiffing you at the last minute if he gets a better offer so no point risking the relationship.

Isn’t that always the way though? Anytime when women’s work being undervalued is mentioned, it’s always dismissed as a ‘another matter’.

The time to address this is now. He wants to be treated like an adult and paid so he can support himself like an adult.

It isn't his livelihood though, is it? Not yet at least. He's a student.

I do agree with your general point about creative work sometimes being undervalued - but I think you're projecting a bit here. DH is a writer but he still reads anything from a CV to a eulogy to a Masters dissertation for close friends and family because, you know, they're close friends or family...

@CompleteOvaryAction. It's not just me who has had to deal with it, my DD (who is older than him has had enough of it).

I am very vocal in my house about the ridiculousness of boy and girl jobs and the things women are just expected to do. This year he again left present giving to the last minute and asked what he should get his sister - it was code for 'what have you got in your present stash I can use'. I told him to look at her list, he was still dithering and I did then give him some ideas (because I wanted her to have a lovely gift, she's very thoughtful) but he hadn't to go and buy and wrap. I told him, again, it wasn't good enough. My DH bailed him out with my gift and I told him on opening that it was disappointing he hadn't done the thinking or looked at my list and bought. I don't care if this makes me ungrateful it's just not good enough and I'm determined to try and highlight these things so he thinks about others and is a good partner.

I'll be honest, it is ongoing in many areas - me having to ask for chores to done and then them being done in his own time. It's like training a dog, you have to be consistent and keep repeating it I think. Also I have stopped doing many things, I'm not a bloody servant and no, I don't know where xyz is!!!

It's exactly the same, though.

They're both jobs. It's clear that you don't see being a musician as a job, though, which it absolutely is.

So many people have this attitude with regards to people in the creative space. "Oh, just play this gig for free...it'll be good exposure," because really, whilst they want and enjoy the services, they don't value it as actual work like they would a self-employed labourer or someone else. Instead, it's viewed as a hobby and perceived on that basis as being something "fun" for the person to be doing rather than something that is real work.

How were you planning on paying the non-related band members?