DS wants to charge

[CompleteOvaryAction]

DH and I are planning a big birthday party in the near future - live music , catering, marquis etc, for a joint "big 0" birthday.
Our DS will be in his third year as a music student and we mentioned we'd like his band to play for some of the evening. He wants us to pay him going rate for his services.
I feel that, for close family you waive your professional fee (we'd expect to pay his band mates) but he's adamant he wants paying too.
It feels like he doesn't appreciate that he's only where he is now because we have funded him. Whilst we don't expect "payback" it would be nice if he thought to acknowledge our help with a gesture of his time for our special celebration.
Is this just his inexperience talking? should we stand our ground, or does he have a point?
I'd rather not have him play, and just have him there as a guest if he insists on charging to play. What do you think?

Wouldn’t the band normally charge a set amount for the whole evening rather than separate payments?

The key word in your response is ‘someone’ That someone is her son.

I think your attitude is hugely indicative of today’s society…that no matter what someone has done for you, you owe them nothing…not even a small £3.00 token gift on their birthday or Christmas.

Do you think his attitude will change when his parents are elderly and maybe one has passed? It will still be “but why should I visit them? Why should I help them? That’s not fair on me”

All British family values (not all but most) have been lost. Family means nothing anymore and if people like you wouldn’t help a family member, a poor old lonely neighbour had no chance.

I work in a multicultural school, and I see a vast difference with how different cultures care for family members. Sadly British families are in the minority when it comes to caring for parents and grandparents. Absolutely NOT ALL British families are like this, but many are.

I'm self employed.

If my closest family all me to work for them, they insist on paying the going rate. It's usually the further out family that think I should do them a favour. They haven't seen all the time and effort I've put into building my business, and think it's 'easy money'.

It seems unfair that you are asking him to work for nothing, when he can just attend and enjoy it instead. If it was me, I would be insisting on paying.

I can see your point of view, but I personally would pay.

At this point, I would ask DS if he would rather attend as a guest or as a band - and I would offer to pay him. No point is creating more bad feeling about this.

I would then gently suggest to him that he uses money raised from gigs to support himself a bit more and that you will dial back a bit what you give him. I would be basing this on his lack of present giving, etc. not specifically on the party. It would probably be good for him to realise how much you do for him and to be grateful, even if he doesn't explicitly owe you anything.

Young adults can be selfish, you can recover from this. It seems from posts on here though with posters saying they would expect their parents to pay them for every bit of time they give up, that not every family operates in this way.
I have some paid skills that I would not dream of charging my parents for - but I would charge a cousin, etc at a basic rate.
Renew how you do things from now on.

I get that this is upsetting but you raised him. Didn't you plan birthday gifts with him for his dad when he was a child and your DH do the same for you? You only learn about giving by modelling it as a parent.

In terms of his band, as someone in a creative industry it is a constant that people expect creative services for free but wouldn't dream of giving their own non creative services free. I imagine he's being taught on his course to treat his band as a business and is just doing that.

But the lack of gift giving sounds incredibly selfish but is on you I'm afraid if you didn't teach and model it from childhood.

It’s not as simple as him rocking up to a venue, pulling out a guitar and playing songs - there will be band practice which would normally mean the hire of a space (costing him money), sound system hire (costing him money), insurance (costing him money), also simply paying for his time and skill. People in creative industries are often asked for freebies as people don’t see their value and want a favour, telling them that exposure should be enough. It would be a lot more respectful to offer to pay for his time, especially if the alternative is to hire another professional. I know he’s your son, but he’s also an adult with a skill that you’d like to utilise.

But I also think as a parent that my job is to help shape the sort of adult who doesn't only think about themselves or what's in it for them.

Well, yes - but that doesn't manifest only in buying presents for parents/giving them services for free, nor does the opposite manifest in not doing those things. My eldest is pursuing a very altruistic, helping, vocation-type career. Both of my older two would do anything for their sister (and tbf for each other too, if push came to shove). Eldest was off yesterday and made me a coffee unprompted while I wfh. Middle one is a whizz in the kitchen and will cook for us or randomly make us smoothies, bruschetta or whatever. But they didn't get me anything for Christmas and (to use an analogy) if I asked middle one to cater my birthday party, he might well ask 'what're you paying?'

My father was a professional musician and was often asked to play at family events. Oftentimes, he would play for free and the remaining members of his group would be paid for their services. For my wedding and significant events for his grandchildren and godchildren, he would pay the other musicians out of his own pocket.

As for my cousins, when they were music students, they would provide a free gig for exposure or a low rate beneath professionals.

They did teach and model it, it says so in her post. However, and quite rightly, they stepped back from this when he reached teens and had his own allowance (still their money) as they felt it was something he should do willingly, having had it modelled to him for years. Hd didn’t !!

I sympathise op. I openly admit I demanded dd sang and she complied, I did pay for her dress (and the other dc)

I find this a bit confusing - if he’s asking for payment for a service that he’ll be providing, then it’s because he understands you’re not the providers and he should be paid for his work.

Yes, because you parented him properly in the first place.

What people can’t do is fail to teach children about reciprocity, generosity, and valuing other people — and then act all surprised when they turn out to be selfish adults, and impose harsh ‘wake up calls’ out of nowhere.

You should still have discussed presents with him. Parenting doesn’t stop as they enter their teens: arguably it is more necessary than ever then.

Stepped back too early, that’s all.

Jesus fucking Christ that is actually the most pathetic leap I’ve ever read.
Christmas gifts are completely unrelated to this post, there’s clearly a back story here that he doesn’t have a positive relationship with his parents. Honestly both the Op and her DS sound as entitled as each other.
Same with “Caring for the elderly” they are completely unrelated. Also don’t tell me what I do for my family, you don’t know me.

Why does he have to work at this party while everyone else gets to celebrate and he doesn’t get paid? Also the Op doesn’t state that she told her DS that she would be paying band, he was most likely putting in his boundaries, are people not allowed to have those anymore? Or is it selfish to have boundaries now

@CompleteOvaryAction

Has your DS offered to help financially towards his own studies with the money he’s making from the gigs? If not making much, has he considered getting a part time job to pay his way?

I really think he needs a wake up call about money and contributions.

Again. I really hope this young man has sorted all his housing needs for the foreseeable and unforeseeable future.

@Summerlilly

Well from your response, I can see I have clearly touched a very raw nerve.

Yep! Keep on putting in those barriers that means young people don’t need to give a fuck about anyone but themselves boundaries with your family.

I was on the fence until I read how the conversation went. It's grim that he went straight to you paying him. And him not ever buying you a birthday or Christmas present?

I'd let the whole thing drop and book someone else.

As a parent, OP has modelled generous gift giving and facilitated this by giving her children a generous allowance in order to do so. He DS is generous with gifts for his sister and friends but doesn't include his parents in this select group.

It's more difficult to complain about a lack of generosity towards oneself than towards others and OP would probably get the same reaction as on here about the music for her party, i.e. that she is mean and entitled and children don't owe their parents anything.

It is strange that he is generous with siblings but not with parents.

Where’s the OP’s husband in all this? He should have been reminding his son to appreciate the OP, as she should remind him to appreciate his father.

Did you just have children for them to take care of you when you get old? That’s not why you have them.
Again this is about the Op feeling entitled to singling out her DS and not paying him, but everyone else around him.
So it’s okay for the Op to be entitled but not her DS?

I think OP's DS is quite thoughtless and mean in never buying even token birthday and Christmas presents for his parents.

However, I don't think that children have a responsibility to provide care for elderly family members, even parents. In other cultures, there may be a culture of automatic respect for parents and in laws where it is common for the younger generation to provide care for parents and grandparents.

However, this isn't always healthy as it is normally expected that female members of the family will provide this care, and there can be an element of coersion, abuse and misogyny so I wouldn't hold this example up as the ideal.

I assume your DD does give you presents, how does he react to this? Does she ever comment?