DS wants to charge

[CompleteOvaryAction]

DH and I are planning a big birthday party in the near future - live music , catering, marquis etc, for a joint "big 0" birthday.
Our DS will be in his third year as a music student and we mentioned we'd like his band to play for some of the evening. He wants us to pay him going rate for his services.
I feel that, for close family you waive your professional fee (we'd expect to pay his band mates) but he's adamant he wants paying too.
It feels like he doesn't appreciate that he's only where he is now because we have funded him. Whilst we don't expect "payback" it would be nice if he thought to acknowledge our help with a gesture of his time for our special celebration.
Is this just his inexperience talking? should we stand our ground, or does he have a point?
I'd rather not have him play, and just have him there as a guest if he insists on charging to play. What do you think?

Paying him for the gig is a tricky one but ultimately, you'd hope he would have offered as you're his parents and have put him through uni. Especially as he doesn't even buy you a box of chocolates for Christmas!
Perfoming at your party would I presume, expose him and his band to a wide audience and as they're uni students, you'd think that he'd be happy with that!
I'd be tempted to present him with an itemised bill of all you do for him but that probably wouldn't go down well!!! Entitled little bugger

I'm wondering if he did normally buy you birthday presents whether you would not also have expected him to perform for free? I guess a present would likely cost less than his share of the fee, but you'd be happy that he had been thoughtful?

At 20 he is still dependent on you in many ways and is also trying to make money / make his way as a musician. This is far removed from a well established older professional who wouldn't dream of expecting family members to pay.

I think the lack of presents / reciprocation is your main issue. He sees you as the provider and himself as the recipient. It's sad, but maybe there are ways you can teach him a lesson - not in relation to the party, keep that separate - but are there services / expectations you could drop, giving your own reasons for doing so (lifts, being asked to do something on his behalf etc), to help him understand you are not simply at his beck and call?

Yeah I agree. My DSs immediate family would offer to pay but he'd say no. He is very family orientated and where possible he would give up a nights work to attend the party anyway.

She literally said: “ Just felt a bit off to me. It's also possibly pertinent to how I feel, that he's never bought either me or his Dad a birthday or Christmas present, or ever spent any money on us at all “

I think the most you could expect is 'mates rates' for a band. I think it would be weird to pay the rest of the band something but not your DS.

They are probably skint students that need the cash so also unfair to say you would be upset if they played another gig who would pay them.

Are they actually any good and play the sort of music you would like at your party? Great live party bands cost £££££.

I think you are conflating lots of different things here which is unfair on your DS.

If you really want a cheap party get a speaker and a play list, keep your DS's band out of it.

I was going to say 'of course he should be proud to play for his parents for free' but this post almost made me change my mind! As a freelancer myself the suggestion that I or anyone else should be pleased to work for free 'for the exposure' gives me the absolute rage!!!! Do your employers ask for the odd unpaid day in return for - I don't know, a boost on LinkedIn? I bet they bloody don't!!!

But yeah, I'd be disappointed my kid wanted paying for this. I'd probably pay him, but I'd have to let him know I was sad he'd asked.

He’d be working and anyway, who could be bothered to give this any thought really, just pay him.

Very much agree with all of this. Separate the two issues.

The band: If you enjoy the music of his band you should offer to pay him as part of hiring entertainment. If you only wanted the band because he is your son and don't really care for the music look for another band. Personally I don't like the idea of expecting mates rates / f&f discounts as you should supported loved ones rather than trying to get a discount or freebie, but it's nice when offered.

A conversation is needed about showing you and your husband some thought and giving back rather than just taking. I'm shocked he never bought you both a Christmas Present, even as a skint student a token gift would have been affordable, it's about the thought not the gift isn't it.

Is he not considering that performing at the do could be his birthday gift to his parents and save him paying out on buying a gift(s) ?

Assuming you're still providing financial support for him at Uni, you could pay the fee but then deduct an amount equating to his share of it (1/4 if his band has 4 members) from the financial support you provide this term.

If he is dependent on band earnings + your financial support however this will leave him short.

out of interest, has he offered a "family & friends discount rate" for his band's performance at your birthday bash ?

And first prize for most obtuse comment of the thread goes to...

If he was my son, I would hope he would do it at cost.

Two separate issues. One the payment for the party - not sure why but I feel that if you are paying the rest of the band well why not pay him as well? Surely it's no big deal. And if he hasn't offered well it could cause some bad feeling if you challenge it which you do not want overshadowing your big occasion. Let him enjoy playing and knowing he is earning at the same time.

A much bigger issue IMO is the Christmas and birthday gifts 😮. This is just dreadful - is he not embarrassed every occasion that he has nothing for you?! Have his siblings not told him to not be a wanker?!

After the party and things are back to normal, yes I would definitely ask a trusted relation or friend to find a way to discuss this with him and get him to grow the hell up!

This is how I feel about this situation as well.

It feels a bit like OP has asked the son to play thinking they wouldn't have to pay him. The subsequent posts feel a bit like a test of loyalty. Just because OP did a lot of things for her parents for free, does not mean her kids have to do the same.

I also don't like the "he's only there because of us" attitude. First off, they are his parents. If they can afford it, why would they not pay for his education? Secondly, I am pretty sure that his hard work has also gotten him where he is today and the fact that he thinks his services should be paid for means that he is considering his own worth as an artist.

At the fact that he'll likely be playing for hours, which is tiring. He does not get enjoy the wedding solely as a guest, as he is there to entertain other guests. It's only fair that he would be paid for professional services.

It's also possibly pertinent to how I feel, that he's never bought either me or his Dad a birthday or Christmas present, or ever spent any money on us at all (he's generous with his friends and sister though, which is good to see).

I can see why you're hurt by his attitude towards charging you for services however it seems perfectly in keeping with a boy who's been allowed (yes, allowed) to grow up selfish, grasping and self-absorbed to the point he has reached adulthood without ever buying either of his parents a birthday or Christmas present. And all seemingly without comment or challenge from either of his parents.

Does your daughter buy you Christmas or birthday presents?

He does not sound like a particularly pleasant boy but you've allowed this. The current issue seems like relatively small fry compared to the larger picture.

When you're a musician you are inundated with people who want a freebie. This is how he wants to make his living and he's right to make sure he's paid.

It's a difficult one. They might be turning down a booking to play. I think you need to pay the going rate if you want them. It's a whole evenings work not just a few minutes.

But, presumably in that situation, also at a time convenient to him? Not a specific time on a specific date. And particularly if it wasn’t just him, but a team of people that work together then I think if you want certainty you have to be willing to pay, even if you’d hope for a discount / freebie.

What is “at cost” for a musician though?
Is it free because he is just standing up there and playing or do you try and calculate the cost of travel, maintaining the instrument, speaker hire, hours of time in rehearsal to learn the required/requested songs? It gets a bit murky, which is why creatives tend to be undervalued as us non-creatives struggle with the lack of tangible resources we’d expect to pay for eg. paying for oil and parts but not time to service the car at a mechanic.

It’s a band. The band is more than four individual musicians; it is an entity that has expenses and equipment (how do they get the drum kit there? And the amps, mics, mixer etc?) and bookings, and needs rehearsal time and planning and can’t drink and enjoy themselves during the party. You’re paying the band, not the individual musicians. In addition — what sort of music do they play normally? Would they have to learn some new songs to cater to their parents’ generation?

It would have been nice had the band decided to charge you expenses only and make a gift of their time, but very unfair of you to demand it, especially as your plan would be to pay other members of the band but not your son.

What you should have done was invite them all to the party and tell them that they’d be welcome to bring their instruments and have a bit of a jam if they wanted to. You’d probably not be able to get them off the stage then.

I would never expect any of the talents in my family to undersell themselves. But I suppose if you're the person that expects electrical work/ tailoring/ cake making for free then this us why you're focused on this. If a live band is outside your budget then try something you can afford.

my bil is an electrician and he absolutely does do work for our family for free. my parents help them out a lot by babysitting their child. My DP sorts out any computer issues my parents have. I've done legal work for the family for pretty much free. My mum is really good at sewing so does clothing alterations for free. My other sibling makes cakes and sells them professionally but doesn't charge family. Her partner's family own a holiday home they let out to family for free.
Isn't that how family works? tbh usually we all offer to pay something but the recipient refuses with the expectation it will all work out in the end.

Me and my siblings have also bought our parents presents since we started being old enough to shop independently (so from about 12 onwards). Obviously inexpensive stuff then, nice stuff as soon as we had part time jobs. The DS is, what, 20, 21 and has never bought his parents so much as a box of chocolate for Christmas, he sounds entitled and selfish to me.

OP has specified they would pay his bandmates so not sure why so many people are querying that. I'd probably have a chat with him but if he really couldn't see my POV it might be unfair to reduce his support during his last year at uni, but I would only be buying him very token presents for christmas/his bday from now on and wouldn't be letting him move back in after uni/offering him reduced rent.

This is a family event that he would otherwise attend. Taking care of his band for the evening, setting up and performing will mean he will miss alot of the party. Sounds like he doesn't want to do it but getting paid would sway him. I think it is unreasonable to expect him to miss the majority of a family event. The investment in his music career is a seperate matter. If he was organising a big family party and instead asked you to do the catering over being a guest how would you feel?

I think if I were the parent, I would see what my son does/decides as it may reveals his character/values. I agree with you @CompleteOvaryAction that I would be disappointed if he either expects a payment or choose to do another gig and not attend.

If I were the son, I would either not charging or charge and use the money to buy a present for my parents.

It's pretty obvious really. This is something he could do in lieu of a present for his parents when he doesn't normally buy for them and wouldn't cost him any more than his time. It's quite normal for people to give gifts for people's important birthdays and people often give home made gifts if they have that skill. This is along similar lines.

If it was one three hour job, absolutely. Fucking hell