DS wants to charge

[CompleteOvaryAction]

DH and I are planning a big birthday party in the near future - live music , catering, marquis etc, for a joint "big 0" birthday.
Our DS will be in his third year as a music student and we mentioned we'd like his band to play for some of the evening. He wants us to pay him going rate for his services.
I feel that, for close family you waive your professional fee (we'd expect to pay his band mates) but he's adamant he wants paying too.
It feels like he doesn't appreciate that he's only where he is now because we have funded him. Whilst we don't expect "payback" it would be nice if he thought to acknowledge our help with a gesture of his time for our special celebration.
Is this just his inexperience talking? should we stand our ground, or does he have a point?
I'd rather not have him play, and just have him there as a guest if he insists on charging to play. What do you think?

Except OP outlined that they did all of that. If you're going to be judgy, at least read first

This is a great post; don’t conflate the fact that he’s (got away with being..?) an ungrateful so-and-so to date with an expectation to provide free entertainment at a party. This is not the time to try and address the bigger problem, IMO.

"I'd rather not have him play, and just have him there as a guest if he insists on charging to play"
Tell him that, and book someone else
Once his bandmates realise he cost them a gig by his pettiness, they may take steps

I am a qualified masseuse. I would never ever charge my parents to give them a massage. Especially on their birthday!

They are professionals if they can collectively charge for their performances.

@CompleteOvaryAction - you should pay the band the going rate if you expect them to give up their evening and attend (in a professional capacity) your birthday celebration. Otherwise you will have to pay either a DJ, Band or combination of that and that will be very expensive.

If he wants to charge for his own services (you should absolutely pay the other band-members regardlesss) rather than do this for his relative as a gift, then treat him as a professional service provider. Make him audition, present him with a contract, make sure he has the relevant insurance in place with regard to equipment, electrics etc, tell him you are seeing other bands, and tell him you'll get back to him (at your convenience).

OMG, just pay the kids their going rate!!

If you can afford a big party, you can afford to pay them. You are the parents and you have the money.

I can't believe how stingy you're being.

This. I’m a pro musician and would much rather enjoy a family event as a guest than be working. Everyone thinks being in a band is just fun, but it’s often a 12+ hour day, loads of lugging heavy equipment around and then waiting around in disabled toilets or the van. Really not quite as glam as you’d imagine!

Totally agree with people telling you to pay- you expect a good service then you pay. Also when are kids are young so we not sometimes pay them to teach them they do a job and they’ll be rewarded? Not for everything, but for things that take proper time and require them to take a certain work ethic. As others say if you can afford to pay for the party you should be paying for the entertainment. Even worse that he was going to be the only one in the band not getting paid!!

It's really not about the money. We're not trying to plan a party on the cheap by calling in favours.

But you would pay the band as whole and then they split the payment depending on their own arrangements.

Lots of my family members are professional musicians, my son is also. He isn't a 3rd year student, it's his job and he would never charge his immediate family. That is only my parents and his aunt/uncle and us. Everyone else is charged. If on his own he'd do it for free as he would be giving up a paid gig to attend anyway (all of us would usually give him something anyway but not full rate, he wouldn't expect anything). If with his band he would do it for free and we'd pay the rest of the people (who would probably do it for free anyway but we'd never expect that)

He always charges friends and more distant family, sometimes slightly reduced rate but he has to earn a living.

Are they as good as someone else you would have hired?

I'm don't agree @myslippersarepink. I have a DD and a DS and have raised them the same, I've been very clear on gift expectations. My DD is amazing, my DS tries to get away with getting others to get his gifts and doesnt want to do the thinking. IMO this seems to be another man problem. They're great at buying for themselves, sorting out trips for themselves but can't be bothered when it comes to others - yet expect others to get them great gifts! Not in my house.

This must be a topic that's much-discussed by student musicians. Perhaps his attitude comes from a general Don't Ever Do Freebies approach.
Can you make it clear that you had hoped he would be happy to do it for your joint birthdays almost as a gift? But that you are happy to find an alternative band if he'd rather just socialise at the event.

If money isn’t an object I would expect to pay going rate. If money is an issue I would expect to pay mates rates.

Unless your son is loaded & assuming he’s a hard worker elsewhere.

That's interesting. How do you tackle this with him?

Am I the only one imagining someone like the late Marquis of Bath with his natty waistcoats and mad hair being hired to turn up to the Op's party?

I do think there's a "thing" that family who play instruments or play in a band are expected to turn up and play for free to family events, and I don't think that's really fair. You can't really expect that, because how would he and his bandmates divvy up the fee?

The gift giving is a separate issue, and one you should have addressed long ago.

Maybe read all of the OPs replies on this thread, @pensionsums He is a selfish freeloader who has never once bought his parents a birthday present or a Christmas present. And you accuse OP of being stingy? !!

They are professionals and it their only job must be earning well from it.
This is a student in an industry that’s hard to make into a career unless you’re incredible, have contacts or luck.
He’s likely to get lots of knocks so wouldn’t it be nice if his parents showed they valued his talents and paid. I doubt this gig will lead to more booking from the OP’s likely older friends.

I do agree that people in creative industries are often exploited- it's undeniable.

But in this specific context, that's not really the issue. It is in his power to thank/help out his parents at no real cost to himself but has chosen not to (yes, loss of revenue is a cost, however he would presumably be attending his parents' party and so would not be earning that evening regardless). That is hurtful.

In my immediate family, professional services (both creative and not) are gladly provided to each other with no expectation of payment, we're just happy to save each other money and help out where we can.

I like it!

Is the band out gigging on a regular basis?

Would they be giving up a paid gig to play at your party?

If my parents wanted to pay the rest of my band but not me I'd tell them where to go!

Hopefully if you are like OP’s son and are funded by your parents and get everyone else presents but not them, then your parents also tell you where to go when you ask them for a favour.

Yeah I can see this, like I said DS would do it for free but we would still give him something. He wouldn't expect it though. DS only earns well from it as he gigs constantly and does solo work, as a band he couldn't earn enough from it.

A big party usually leads to other bookings but obviously that depends on the type of music they do and whether they are actually good.

I can see it from both sides for sure.