Page 10 | DS wants to charge

CompleteOvaryAction · 2025-01-04T00:29:03+00:00

DH and I are planning a big birthday party in the near future - live music , catering, marquis etc, for a joint "big 0" birthday. Our DS will be in his third year as a music student and we mentioned we'd like his band to play for some of the evening. He wants us to pay him going rate for his services. I feel that, for close family you waive your professional fee (we'd expect to pay his band mates) but he's adamant he wants paying too. It feels like he doesn't appreciate that he's only where he is now because we have funded him. Whilst we don't expect "payback" it would be nice if he thought to acknowledge our help with a gesture of his time for our special celebration. Is this just his inexperience talking? should we stand our ground, or does he have a point? I'd rather not have him play, and just have him there as a guest if he insists on charging to play. What do you think?

Eviebeans · 04/01/2025 07:56

What do they charge?
are they any good?
are they good enough that you’d hire them on their own merits?

JustMyView13 · 04/01/2025 08:00

Whilst we don't expect "payback" it would be nice if he thought to acknowledge our help with a gesture of his time for our special celebration.

But you are expecting a payback, because you’re expecting his band to perform for free at your party.

How do you know that he hasn’t already purchased a special gift or experience for your celebration? You’d effectively be expecting a bigger contribution from him, than other family members.

AllRightNowt · 04/01/2025 08:01

Also, another thought - You are assuming he is just asking for himself. Maybe his automatic response was meaning the bands fee as a whole, because he wouldn't want to ask his bandmates to work for free. You hadn't at that point (or any point?) Said you'd pay the bandmates.

His track record with gifts is another matter.

Octember · 04/01/2025 08:02

Having read the updates I'm now horribly on the fence with this one. It's very pertinent that he's never given you any presents - the fact this seems to have gone unnoticed/unchecked before now is possibly coming back to bite you on the bum OP! Do your other children give you gifts? How old are they?

I would say absolutely that you weren't expecting the band to play for free, but that you'd hoped this year might be the year he thought about giving you a gift of some kind, whether that's a discount for his part in playing or some other kind of gift, as it's starting to feel hurtful that he never has.

Horserider5678 · 04/01/2025 08:05

Why would you not pay him? If he’s trying to forge a career in the music industry surely you would want to support him. A friend there could know someone in the industry and say to them I heard this amazing band, opening other doors for his band!
You totally came across as an a* the moment you wrote he wouldn’t be where he is if it wasn’t for us! As parents that’s what we do, we do our best for our children, if you didn’t want to support him why did you have children?

Allthegoodhorses · 04/01/2025 08:08

JustKeepSwimmingJust · 04/01/2025 00:30

If it was just him you might have a good point. How well do you know his band members? Should they also give up an evening to do their job for free?

Quite clearly states in the OP she would be paying band members.

Fishystripe · 04/01/2025 08:08

oakleaffy · 04/01/2025 01:24

I agree..My son helped do work on my house, alongside a paid Tradesman.
He wasn't expecting to be paid, but 'I paid him the same day rate as the tradesman as it was hot, sweaty dirty horrid work in a heatwave!{Replacing a ceiling in an old house}

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But that's different because:

a) it's not dirty, horrid work

b) your son offered to do it for free, and

c) it wasn't a potential birthday gift for your parents who you never treat who are funding your studies.

I wouldn't hire him on principle. I had a similar thing with a nephew for whom I'd done several favours. The first thing he said when I asked him to babysit was how much he charged. I didn't use him and he missed out on many lucrative future gigs (my kids were older so it wouldn't have been much of a chore).

I don't blame you OP, I'd be very hurt in your shoes.

AlmosttimeforChristmas · 04/01/2025 08:13

CompleteOvaryAction · 04/01/2025 01:05

The conversation went:
Me: DS, will you play at our party?
DS: Yes, but I expect to be paid.
Me: Oh, I thought you might just do it cos we're your Mum and Dad.
DS: That's not fair on me.

Just felt a bit off to me. It's also possibly pertinent to how I feel, that he's never bought either me or his Dad a birthday or Christmas present, or ever spent any money on us at all (he's generous with his friends and sister though, which is good to see). This is just something that occurred to me this Christmas when a friend asked me what he'd bought me. I don't expect lavish gifts, but a book or a box of chocolates wouldn't be beyond his resources.

I'm hoping he'll eventually see us as separate people from himself with our own feelings. At the moment, it appears we are cash-machines in his eyes. He takes but never gives.

I would say something like ‘DS, we are really hurt by the fact you’d want paying rather than performing as a gift to us. We love you and have given you a lot. While we are discussing we are also hurt that you’ve never though to give us even a token birthday or Christmas present, but we don’t want to fall out about it; it’s just a bit of context. We love you and don’t want to fall out about it so will get someone else to play’ and move on and hope he starts to understand.
question- did neither of you ever take him out shopping for presents for the other parebt growing up?

Fishystripe · 04/01/2025 08:13

Wtafdidido · 04/01/2025 07:18

In the grand scheme of things and in relation to the overall and likely substantial budget you are spending on this event is it worth falling out of a relatively small sum of money? You will be paying his band mates so given all the other expenses and overall budget it’s not going to make a vast debt to just pay him and be done with it. You would have to pay an alternate band anyway which is likely to be a lot more expensive. Yes he should probably do it as his gift to you but it is what it is and don’t let it sour the event.

Do you really think it's about the money?

Tryingtokeepgoing · 04/01/2025 08:14

maudelovesharold · 04/01/2025 00:49

So…you’re saying he can’t earn any money that night, either by playing at your party, or by taking a paid gig? You wont be hiring him. If you hire someone, you pay them for whatever they’re doing for you.

I think the way it would play out in our family is us offering to pay him to perform, him saying no, that’s fine, and us giving him something anyway! Presumably you are better off financially than he is?

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It’s actually worse than that, because she saying she expects him to come as a guest if he’s not playing, which means the whole band will have to turn down other paying gigs and they all lose out.

i think mixing family / friends and business is generally a bad idea - the OP either offers to pay the going rate for the band (this per person business is odd - that’s not the basis bands are engaged on) or hires someone else. If they offer a discount or to do it for free, then great. If they say they don’t want to do it and he’ll attend as a guest that’s fine. But demanding is not on.

Speckyfourfries · 04/01/2025 08:15

You hire a service, you pay for that service

Tryingtokeepgoing · 04/01/2025 08:18

Allthegoodhorses · 04/01/2025 08:08

Quite clearly states in the OP she would be paying band members.

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But how will she pay them? The band will have a rate for a gig. Is she going to negotiate with each of them, and pressurise them in to performing on the cheap? I expect he’d rather she didn’t do that with his friends / colleagues - it’s beyond embarrassing…

CowTown · 04/01/2025 08:22

Tryingtokeepgoing · 04/01/2025 08:18

But how will she pay them? The band will have a rate for a gig. Is she going to negotiate with each of them, and pressurise them in to performing on the cheap? I expect he’d rather she didn’t do that with his friends / colleagues - it’s beyond embarrassing…

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“I’ll pay you 4/5 of your nightly rate”? Who knows…seems odd.

ParsonBrown · 04/01/2025 08:23

I'd say you either pay them all or you don't pay any of them.

If you're hiring them as a band, pay them. Be professional.

And then, keep this in the back of your mind when he wants to return home after his course is over.

Charge him for cleaning, his share of the bills etc etc

Tryingtokeepgoing · 04/01/2025 08:25

DancefloorAcrobatics · 04/01/2025 07:16

MN has such a wired view on things...
He's still at uni, he's not an established professional. I knew a lot of uni students art and music when I was a student... the majority did not make it as professionals.

I also don't think that the argument of missing out on another gig is relevant. It's his parents big birthday! Of course he's gonna attend unless he's a big spoiled bratty moron.
Would I pay his friends, yes of course I would - I am not their parent, they are giving up their time... I might even give something to my own DC IF they didn't expect it. which in this case they do so no
Just say thanks, but no thanks and look elsewhere.

I am unclear how him expecting payment is any different to the OP expecting it for free. He’s clearly his mothers son! I’d look elsewhere as well, and expect to pay the going rate, which is undoubtedly more than his band charges anyway.

But why do so many people not value the creative arts? Most people wouldn’t expect a builder / plumber / electrician to work for them for free, though would be grateful if they did or got it at reduced rates. But for the arts there’s this belief that people should somehow do things for nothing because there’s no physical product.

MooFroo · 04/01/2025 08:26

CompleteOvaryAction · 04/01/2025 01:05

The conversation went:
Me: DS, will you play at our party?
DS: Yes, but I expect to be paid.
Me: Oh, I thought you might just do it cos we're your Mum and Dad.
DS: That's not fair on me.

Just felt a bit off to me. It's also possibly pertinent to how I feel, that he's never bought either me or his Dad a birthday or Christmas present, or ever spent any money on us at all (he's generous with his friends and sister though, which is good to see). This is just something that occurred to me this Christmas when a friend asked me what he'd bought me. I don't expect lavish gifts, but a book or a box of chocolates wouldn't be beyond his resources.

I'm hoping he'll eventually see us as separate people from himself with our own feelings. At the moment, it appears we are cash-machines in his eyes. He takes but never gives.

Give less and cut the cash or make it based on his behaviours and action

let him get more gigs and fund himself more

it’s v hurtful when you realise your kids can be selfish little buggers - I’ve seen behaviours in mine and called them out on it, changed how we give them money etc so they are aware of our expectations of them as our children and also how much we have done to help them live the lives they want, including what we’ve sacrificed ourselves so they can have the good stuff.

As we getting older and they are too, the dynamics are interesting! Our babies are actually grown adults so need to start making better life choices and learning how the real world works

MumblesParty · 04/01/2025 08:27

JustKeepSwimmingJust · 04/01/2025 00:30

If it was just him you might have a good point. How well do you know his band members? Should they also give up an evening to do their job for free?

.

SoNiceToComeHomeTo · 04/01/2025 08:29

CompleteOvaryAction · 04/01/2025 01:05

The conversation went:
Me: DS, will you play at our party?
DS: Yes, but I expect to be paid.
Me: Oh, I thought you might just do it cos we're your Mum and Dad.
DS: That's not fair on me.

Just felt a bit off to me. It's also possibly pertinent to how I feel, that he's never bought either me or his Dad a birthday or Christmas present, or ever spent any money on us at all (he's generous with his friends and sister though, which is good to see). This is just something that occurred to me this Christmas when a friend asked me what he'd bought me. I don't expect lavish gifts, but a book or a box of chocolates wouldn't be beyond his resources.

I'm hoping he'll eventually see us as separate people from himself with our own feelings. At the moment, it appears we are cash-machines in his eyes. He takes but never gives.

Ah this is clearer now. You know he
expects never to spend any money on his parents but wanted him to do something of the kind just once on this special day. He was almost certain to refuse.
I agree that its hurtful but you’re set him and yourself up to feet uncomfortable, and now the next step will be hard- withdraw the request to play at the event or pay him , which will rub in the hurt you are feeling.
in your position I think I would do the latter.

Original poster

CompleteOvaryAction · 04/01/2025 08:30

AlmosttimeforChristmas · 04/01/2025 08:13

I would say something like ‘DS, we are really hurt by the fact you’d want paying rather than performing as a gift to us. We love you and have given you a lot. While we are discussing we are also hurt that you’ve never though to give us even a token birthday or Christmas present, but we don’t want to fall out about it; it’s just a bit of context. We love you and don’t want to fall out about it so will get someone else to play’ and move on and hope he starts to understand.
question- did neither of you ever take him out shopping for presents for the other parebt growing up?

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Re gifts: Yes, when the children were young we would help pick out (and pay for) a present for the other parent, but as they entered teens and had their own money (allowance from us) we stepped back from this hoping generosity was instilled, which it is - as I said he buys gifts for his friends.
I sort of feel like he still sees us as the "providers", and he as our "dependent" and he hasn't caught up with how the relationship has evolved as he's grown.
I have hesitated to have the conversation re gifts as it rather defeats the point to ask for a gift but maybe I could get an auntie or friend to mention it and see if the penny drops.
That's separate from the party/band/payment question of course, although springing from the same attitude I think.

OP posts:

ClairInTheCommunity · 04/01/2025 08:31

I think you should pay him. It would be wrong for him to ask his bandmates to play a gig - any gig - for free. And you couldn't deduct his share of that fee, could you? It would be a weird thing to do. What if each band member is asked to pay for free at relatives gigs? They will always be doing favours for family/friends and never make any money.

You are effectively saying that he should give you the gig as a present, but it is up to him what present he gives you on the day. I would understand if you were asking for a discount.

I know people whose kids have become very wealthy - they don't expect special favours from them. Pay up.

BraOffPjsOn · 04/01/2025 08:32

How old is he?
How much does he work and earn from any jobs he has at the moment?

I think you should pay him. You’re willing to pay the band and are obviously spending a lot to have this party so aren’t struggling.

Xmas - you need to have a conversation and explain now he’s an adult(?) it would be nice if gifts were reciprocated although it very much depends on age and circumstances if he’s struggling or not.

Melodyfair · 04/01/2025 08:32

Your offspring don’t owe you anything at all from volunteering to play at your birthday to your future care and support. They are not your pension pot that you pay into and then start drawing out. If you chose to pay his uni fees you don’t get to demand your share in that or sit with a trembling bottom lip because your ‘investment’ won’t now pay out on demand.

Im shocked how this thread has gone, if your son chooses to help or offer things for you it has to be off his own back. If he is indeed inherently selfish and has never bought you birthday or Christmas presents then maybe that’s on you and how you raised him, you’ve obviously never taught or brought up the fact he hasn’t done this?

If it’s a special birthday then let him be a guest, pay a band or DJ and don’t use him to either show off to your friends your investment or get freebies!

devilspawn · 04/01/2025 08:34

I think you should support his dream, it's a big deal to have a paid gig and you refusing to pay is sending the message that you don't think his music is worth paying for.

I have a friend who does live music gigs and I always pay to go along and support her when I'm in the area. She might be in a pub with 2 people who have no choice but to listen, but that's not the point.

When my partner started his business, his parents didn't go to him for work even though they used the exact same service with someone else. It's something I've never forgotten. Strangers pay for his service but his own family still don't, even though he's used their services (at full price) several times.

babyproblems · 04/01/2025 08:35

Maybe pay his band mates. I don’t think you can expect them to do it for free! x

Fishystripe · 04/01/2025 08:35

Tryingtokeepgoing · 04/01/2025 08:25

I am unclear how him expecting payment is any different to the OP expecting it for free. He’s clearly his mothers son! I’d look elsewhere as well, and expect to pay the going rate, which is undoubtedly more than his band charges anyway.

But why do so many people not value the creative arts? Most people wouldn’t expect a builder / plumber / electrician to work for them for free, though would be grateful if they did or got it at reduced rates. But for the arts there’s this belief that people should somehow do things for nothing because there’s no physical product.

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I think they would if it was your own child who was the electrician/plumber/builder and it was a couple of hours work AND you were still funding their training. You're also missing out the fact that it's his parents' big birthday. The idea it's to do with the creative industries is a red herring.