Elon Musk and Racism

[raincoatwarmcoatlongcoat]

Inspired by the other long running thread. I keep reading that he tweets and retweets racist comments. Can anyone link any or all of them please? I see tweets over illegal immigration, as opposed to immigration, but not racist?

So instead of opinions please can people post the actual words used or retweeted? Or anything he said in interviews, word for word?

Thanks!

You have no understanding of sarcasm do you.

That he will help me personally - but maybe he will do me less harm than Starmer

Oh I do, you don’t understand unconscious bigotry either do you?

Are you going to accuse me of being a man? That's normally the next stage.

I do think that the 'left' is not being clearly defined. Yes, of COURSE there are far-left people, who are just as bad as (and often not very distinguishable from) the far right: Stalin, Mao, Xi, Maduro, etc. etc. On a less extreme level, I sometimes say that George Galloway is the mirror image of Farage.

But some of the references to the 'left' here seem to be to people who are just vaguely liberal or who dislike right-wing policies. I would not call Starmer all that left-wing; most American Democrats are still less so.

Ooh funny that, I was expecting you to accuse me of being a man with your comment. Sorry to disappoint

I actually agree with you, although I have been using left and right, I’ve said elsewhere the better term would be globalists v individualists.

I think the problem is there is people who are anti extreme right and see danger and they automatically get lumped into must be left or extreme left! Like left is a massive spectrum of not extreme right middle and left and extreme left! There isn't any extreme left political people or even known people around. There isn't like some extreme left movement happening. Yes of course if u ask anyone on right if there is extreme left out there they will say yes but no actual physical person comes to mind. It's all hyperthetical . Beliving trans people exist and have right to live how they want but with real discussions on how that looks like. Its extreme left! It's crazy! Also the anti trans is a very mumsnet thing.

I really don’t think you understand the whole trans debate. Do you understand the manipulation that is occurring in connection with it that is leading to real harm for children. Do you understand the harm that has been done to women, women losing careers because they refuse to subscribe to the ideology.

it’s a typical position - the “ just be kind” but the trouble is you’re picking who to be kind to, clue is it’s not women. It’s an ideology used to silence and undermine women. Third generation feminism is something that belongs as a hypothetical in universities as an interesting theory rather than real life.

it is a far left ideology. I’m concerned you can’t see this. I can assure you this is not a “Mumsnet thing” it might be the only time you come across it if you live in a left wing echo chamber but these views are held quite widely and increasingly people are waking up to how this ideology is being used

I am certainly more left wing than right wing on politics. However I am very gender critical, I’ve been called a terf more times than I know. I completely agree that the trans movement harms women and children.

i think we all need to remember politics is a spectrum I guess. I wouldn’t say that every Tory voter is racist, heck there may even be some Reform voters who aren’t racist. Not every Labour voter is “woke”.

Yes ur right I dont understand the trans debate that the right is pushing. I don't see trans people as a threat to women or men. U can thats ur right. And the manipulation u bang on about can easily be switched around as u do love to do that and i could say u could be equally being manipulated with the trans= evil and being bad to women. And I have my right to belive what I belive and u have urs and this isnt what this thread. Not beliving trans =bad for women isnt a far right issue. I am not far right because I genuinely think people have a right to exist.

If I was far left I would be wanting communism which I don't. Trans issue is a culture war it's a classic them vs us , to keep the base riled up and angry . And easy way to accuse anyone not beliving in the 'right' way as far left and wrong.
It's an easy way to go , like a 'what about the children!!!' everyone want to protect children like ur an evil monster if u don't ! So it's an easy way to Pigeon hole evil far lefty 🙄

*isnt a far left issue

@Feelingathomenow

“Wokeness” in mine (and other peoples terms) is unthinkingly following a narrative that proclaims to be morally superior - whilst the view and it’s implications is typically unsophisticated and lacks acknowledgment of the multifaceted implications of holding that view. It is typically used to try and try and deny the validity of opposing views as others group round the appropriate mantras. They are often akin to religious beliefs and followed without question.

why are they a threat?

• because they are too simple to fully account for the true nature of a situation
• they are often binary and create a system of wrong speak and wrong think
• they are used to divide
• they are often not based on any objective evidence
• they discourage critical thinking
• they often create an “enemy” ie those not toeing the line.

This isn't really clear. Who are "they"? What are the "morally superior" narratives you suggest? Are you simply talking about Leftism by another name?

'Woke', in its current form, is completely fabricated. It's simply a word to get the right-wing among us enraged about the kinder, gentler aspects of society. Originally, the word 'woke' was used by African-Americans to each other as a way to stay aware of possible racial violence and discrimination from white people. The RW has now co-opted the word to mean something different: a distaste for social justice and equality.

I do agree with most of your bullet points, though. There's little critical thinking going on here, and the word is absolutely used to divide, often based on little objective evidence.

Euripedes said it best "There is no cure for madness when the cure itself is mad". That is basically Elon Musk versus the "woke mind virus".

well I agree. If you look back at my original comments I was referring to the fact that the left can hold extremist views just as the right can. There seemed to have been a narrative playing out that the right were evil and the left would never hold anything but fluffy lovely views

Ie the extremist politics on both sides

“They” extremist leftist views. But many of the “woke” views aren’t kinder/gentler. Look at the TRAs “punch a TERF” even those who consider themselves moderate thinkers think nothing of throwing women’s rights, safety and dignity under a bus.

We need to get away from “the right is aggressive and mean, the left is kind gentle and for the people” we are living increasingly in a time when extremist black and white thinking is the norm. We need to look at how we get back to the centre as a priority. To do that we firstly need to recognise that some of what people think is the centre is, really, quite extreme. This is a big challenge in the world of social media echo chambers.

You have your right to think what you like, unfortunately if your views are pushed on to others then I think it undermines many women’s rights and the position women have fought and died for. The erasure of womanhood is the biggest threat women have faced in perhaps 3 generations.,the far right also have positions that threaten aspects of womanhood. I don’t embrace either, but I think in this regard the left is far worse, yet some embrace it as “kind” - now that I find downright scary.

The thing is, yes both sides can be manipulated- but applying critical thinking to the situation can limit its affects. Being aware of human nature, being aware of political/power patterns can help.

Go on and read Animal Farm and 1984.

Many of the people pushing against the mutilation and sterilisation of children and teenagers who think they are the opposite sex or don't understand what any of those concepts mean, or who are gay, lesbian, autistic or indeed, have many other issues going on in their lives, are left wing or centrists. It is a myth that it is the 'right wing' that are pushing back against trans ideology.

Why they do this, perhaps the chicken can explain for us. Why are so many people obsessed with transing kids? I don't understand.

Note: one of the things going on in these kids lives is that they are more than 10 times likely than other kids to have a parent on the sex offenders register as shown by the GIDS clinic statistics. So, there's that of course.

@Feelingathomenow

“They” extremist leftist views. But many of the “woke” views aren’t kinder/gentler. Look at the TRAs “punch a TERF” even those who consider themselves moderate thinkers think nothing of throwing women’s rights, safety and dignity under a bus.

'Extremist leftist' doesn't equal 'woke'. And no, TRAs are not woke either. Respectfully, you seem a bit confused about this concept.*
*
We need to get away from “the right is aggressive and mean, the left is kind gentle and for the people” we are living increasingly in a time when extremist black and white thinking is the norm. We need to look at how we get back to the centre as a priority. To do that we firstly need to recognise that some of what people think is the centre is, really, quite extreme. This is a big challenge in the world of social media echo chambers.

By definition, centrism is moderate. When I referred to the words 'kind' and 'gentle' before, I did not apply them directly to the Left - that is you doing that. Why? I really don't understand the rest of your post at all.

I’m sorry if you’re struggling with comprehension. I think you will find woke views are found almost exclusively on the left of the political spectrum - maybe we can say people with woke views almost exclusively have left political views. Woke views have become embedded within the Left (although there is isolated rejection of geese views) For example - try to get Starmer to define “woman”. Woke views are very rarely found in the right of the political spectrum. Centrist views contain a fairly broad range of positions on this as centrists generally look at issues on a piecemeal basis and are fairly hard to generalise about. I therefore don’t know why you would apply the words “kind” and “gentle” here. Esp when they are used in ways that generally favour the views of those to the left of left the political spectrum

@Feelingathomenow

I’m sorry if you’re struggling with comprehension. I think you will find woke views are found almost exclusively on the left of the political spectrum - maybe we can say people with woke views almost exclusively have left political views. Woke views have become embedded within the Left (although there is isolated rejection of geese views) For example - try to get Starmer to define “woman”. Woke views are very rarely found in the right of the political spectrum. Centrist views contain a fairly broad range of positions on this as centrists generally look at issues on a piecemeal basis and are fairly hard to generalise about. I therefore don’t know why you would apply the words “kind” and “gentle” here. Esp when they are used in ways that generally favour the views of those to the left of left the political spectrum

No, I meant that, more broadly, 'Left' does not automatically mean 'woke'.

But I think you're having trouble keeping track of what's been said, so I'll leave it there.

Dies anyone remember the woke bro that was protesting against the anti abortion protesters who didn't like a woman who was anti abortion so decided to do a literal kick to her head? He jumped up, swirled round and smashed her in the head with his foot.

Yeah, be kind.

Nice try, but I’m keeping up fine. But glad you’ve caught up with what I was saying, woke is a left ideology although of course not everyone who is left believes in it.