To ask if you know anyone personally who got pregnant by lying about contraception?

[Pavemw]

Just that, really. I have an extremely close friend who confided in me at new year that her 11 year old dd wasn’t actually an accident. I have known her half my life and our kids are friends. She was with this man for a short time and the relationship did not last the pregnancy although he does see his dd and has been pretty good to my friend financially.

I can’t get my head around it. This is someone who I go to for advice. She’s always empathetic and kind. I can’t even believe she would have done it and I don’t know why it’s bothering me as much as it is. I don’t know her ex, haven’t seen him in many years. I almost feel she’s lied to me too, which I know is silly. She said she was late 30s, had been told her fertility wasn’t great and had had enough of being messed around by men, so when this next one seemed keen to commit she just went for it. I know she has been treated badly in the past and has always put her heart out there only to be messed about or strung along so I can almost feel how frustrated she would have been but… to do this? I can’t imagine it as I had my two in a happy marriage. Maybe I being horribly judgmental. I can’t reconcile this with who I thought she was all these years. Am I being dramatic?!

Has anybody in this thread shown support for men willingly agreeing to have children and then abandoning them after the fact?

Based on no evidence so you are just fabricating it as I said.

I said easy to prove as most have evidence not report. Simple reading skills might help you. So now you admit you lied. Thank you for catching your own tail.

As I said even with film footage you will not get a conviction due to the quota. The quota dismisses all evidence to let rapists walk free to fudge data. By all means you can pretend the quota doesn't exist but it has been admitted that it does.

You literally said you do not believe my data. My data is women who have reported it. All my data is women who have reported that so you are saying you do not believe those women who reported it.

Pretending I am mental to discredit and silence is always a last ditch attempt!

It’s an opinion, and in my opinion your language makes it come across like you think rape is easy to conclude. It isn’t.

I dont believe your statistics is what I said. You haven’t presented me with any data

It is a fabrication. You keep on lying despite me saying the opposite - why do you continue to do so. Even when I said it took me a year to report?

I have used no language relating to ease or difficulty in reporting. I have never even mentioned it before you fabricated this. So there is no 'language' that you have related it to.

Is there a reason why you lie so frequently and hate on rape victims who find it difficult to report?

My statistics are from women reporting - so if you do not believe that data you do not believe the women who reported as that data is 51% out of the 100% of women who reported disclosed this. You said this amount is not true. You are saying they are lying.

And then pretending mental health is an issue just shows your true colours. Why did you fabricate that?

If you do not believe that this is the correct data, what is the data you have that says how many wake up being penetrated?

How many women do you accuse of lying in this report?

No it’s called an opinion. Not a lie. In my opinion your persistent insistence that “It’s easy to figure out if someone was raped” and presenting skewed stats made me think you didn’t understand the fuller picture.

I don’t lie frequently or “hate on rape victims”. Stop making things up you silly person. Is there a reason you over react to people giving their opinions on you?

My statistics are from women reporting - so if you do not believe that data you do not believe the women who reported as that data is 51% out of the 100% of women who reported disclosed this. You said this amount is not true. You are saying they are lying.

Are you on drugs?

I asked you to present me with the source (which you haven’t) and I don’t think this stat is accurate. Now - and read carefully - that’s not to say I think these women are lying. It’s to say that there is no evidence that 51% “of 100% of women” (I know how percentages work thanks) are raped in their sleep

I don’t disbelieve women as a general rule. I do disbelieve stats as a general rule depending on where they come from.

Can you understand the difference or does it need explaining further?

Do you have a source for your statistics?

This is right up the "sins of Eve" diatribe and exactly what I mentioned as a trope, that women are generally too often seen as deliberately deceitful when an outcome occurs that the man didn't plan.

As I say, if he really didn't want a child, then he should have worn a condom.

Women would also be well advised not to leave their contraception in the hands of men, if they really don't want a baby, so using another method as well as condoms, yes.

No contraception is foolproof.

But the idea of jumping to assume women deceive, more than an unwanted pregnancy is 'bad luck, these things happen', 'negligence', or contraceptive failure is a stretch and misogynistic.

Anyway I’m guessing you mean the Victim Focus report from 2021?

So, part of my job is to analyse data and make it readable and presentable to Joe Public. Which is why I know that when we are presented with stats we have to focus on where they came from.

This Victim Focus survey that resulted in the 51% figure was from a survey of 22,000 women. That is not anywhere close to being representative of the UK’s population of 35 million women. I believe those 11,000+ women who said it happened to them. But I don’t believe this stat is representative of the population as a whole (although I’m sure this won’t stop you losing your shit and saying I don’t believe victims given your penchance for the melodramatic)

the other problem with the research is that Victim Focus made the survey public and the 22,000 women are self reported. This makes data VERY unreliable. If this was an academic led research paper, then a team would liaise with charities, third sector, government departments and the ONS to produce a more accurate and reliable report using very reliable data that exists from reliable sources. They would also survey women that are as close to representative of the U.K. population of women as possible. For example if say 1 in 10 women in the U.K. are non-white, that’s how sample survey participants would be selected. Thats about as reliable as research can get. However, saying “Fill this survey out if you fancy” led by a woman who has a VERY specific audience of second wave feminists, who follow people who talk about sexual assault and the problems men create, will not throw up reliable results. It’s the equivalent of Jeremy Clarkson saying “Hey petrolheads, fill in this survey to tell me what kind of car you have” then saying “85% of the UK drive an Audi”.

That 51% stat is about as reliable as broken down car.

How many committed couples continue to use and wish to use barrier forms of contraceptive let’s be honest?

I don’t and I’m a woman.

People are being wildly unrealistic when it comes to committed partners.

For casual sex encounters I wholeheartedly agree - anybody not using condoms is an idiot. But it’s fine for two people to agree on a form on contraception that only one person is responsible for. I have done so and trusted my partner at the time to not be a lying bar steward. If he had been a lying bat steward I would consider myself a victim in that situation even though I declined to use my own forms of contraception.

@ShesNotACowShesAFox I presume PP's statements are based on this.

In April, Dr Jessica Taylor, founder of VictimFocuss, an independent consultancy and research firm working in forensic psychology, feminism and mental health, released a report on a study that had set out to gauge the extent of violence against women. Naming specific acts, rather than using broad – and loaded – terms such as “abuse” or “rape”, her survey asked more than 22,000 women if, for example, they had ever been spat at, or strangled, kicked or bitten. It also asked respondents if they had ever woken to their male partner having sex with themm or performing sex acts on them while they slept. To this question, 51% answered yes.

I know, see my above post as to why this stat isn’t reliable on a population level and that’s it’s inaccurate to declare that “51% of women are raped in their sleep”

Dont get me wrong, sexual violence is a HUGE problem but I don’t think presenting manipulated or inaccurate stats is ever helpful to anybody

It is a lie. Can you answer my questions please?

I didn't say it was easy to figure out or presented skewed stats. You have lied frequently about me and hated on me. Not over-reacting at all. I am calling you out. It is called a debate. If someone lies about you, then you can call them out and many liars do not like that so will deflect by any means possible.

You tried to fabricate something - then tried to fabricate I didn't know despite me saying I took a year to report - then tried to fabricate I was mental - not trying to fabricate I am on drugs. You really are showing me who you are. Using all the tactics of a desperate person now.

I must've missed that you asked me that amongst all your lies. I am still wondering why you think women lie as you have yet to give me your 'correct' data. The data is there yet you seem to be unable to share both mine or yours. Not sure why you know no data on this yet claim mine is false despite not sharing your own data to dispute it.

Also you are misquoting me. Maybe you need to learn a few reading skills.

I'm genuinely shocked and disgusted by how many women think it's okay to lie to a man about their contraception status and trap them into having a child.

you have yet to give me your 'correct' data. The data is there yet you seem to be unable to share both mine or yours

What data would you like exactly that you can’t find?

A friend of mine, of 30 plus years, told me years ago that her husband (who was much older) didn't want any more children after their first. He already had a grown up, but estranged, family. She then admitted for her next two children, she flushed her pill down the toilet and told him that the pill mustn't have worked.
I thought and still do, that it was underhanded and very irresponsible. And untrustworthy.
The kids are all grown up now and absolutely lovely, two with families of their own.
(My friend and her husband split up years ago, not due to this).
But it's never sat right with me that she tricked him like that and he still has no idea.

I have come to understand that those who believe stridently in informed consent are a distinct minority.

She does not have physical evidence. He didn't film her. It may not have been his first crime against her, but it's the only one she considers to be a crime.

So you support surveys but do not support surveys? Odd that eh! Yet have no data of your own.

It is a lie. I do not think it and have said it time and time again yet you keep repeating it so it is a lie. Nope I am not over-reacting, it is called a debate. If you cannot cope with someone who disagrees with you and resort to more lies to try and discredit.

You are saying you do not believe women. You have said that countless times about those women who reported this. You do not believe them. Pretty simple. Why would you not believe women who report?

The tactics used when desperate is to pretend someone is mental or on drugs.
You are really showing you are resorting to really low tactics because you got called out and are pissed.

If you cannot stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Learn to debate without resorting to sad pathetic tactics like that as it really tells me more about you as a person and what you really are.

See that is the kind of post I’m talking about.

You gave an example of your friend’s rape and the response was along the lines of “but that’s sooooo easy to prove! He probably fined it!” Without taking the whole picture into account. It’s irksome and IMO indicative of someone who doesn’t understand the difficulties of reporting. Also the bar for rape convictions is so high, women HAVE been filmed being raped and men still haven’t been charged and convicted!

I’ll probably get assumed of something ludicrous like strangling kittens after making that comment but that’s my opinion.

Physical evidence - bruising, swelling, physical trauma to her body....

Rapist in a relationship usually test the waters first with other crimes. I believe he more than likely did.

Also the bar for rape convictions is so high, women HAVE been filmed being raped and men still haven’t been charged and convicted!

And yet you disputed that as being a reason for rape convictions being so low when it was with me.

I’ll probably get assumed of something ludicrous like strangling kittens after making that comment but that’s my opinion.

Nah I'm not like you.

Rape doesn't equal violence ffs. I was raped multiple times as a teen. Never had a bruise. That's the exact reason that even my parents didn't believe me.

Likely my friend didn't either. And yes, it's highly likely he did something prior. But that's not evidence.