To ask if you know anyone personally who got pregnant by lying about contraception?

[Pavemw]

Just that, really. I have an extremely close friend who confided in me at new year that her 11 year old dd wasn’t actually an accident. I have known her half my life and our kids are friends. She was with this man for a short time and the relationship did not last the pregnancy although he does see his dd and has been pretty good to my friend financially.

I can’t get my head around it. This is someone who I go to for advice. She’s always empathetic and kind. I can’t even believe she would have done it and I don’t know why it’s bothering me as much as it is. I don’t know her ex, haven’t seen him in many years. I almost feel she’s lied to me too, which I know is silly. She said she was late 30s, had been told her fertility wasn’t great and had had enough of being messed around by men, so when this next one seemed keen to commit she just went for it. I know she has been treated badly in the past and has always put her heart out there only to be messed about or strung along so I can almost feel how frustrated she would have been but… to do this? I can’t imagine it as I had my two in a happy marriage. Maybe I being horribly judgmental. I can’t reconcile this with who I thought she was all these years. Am I being dramatic?!

Two things can be true - they’re being deliberately misled AND being irresponsible by not sorting their own contraceptions.

biology wins over the wishes of individuals. jesus...... where do you draw the line for that one? What a disgusting comment. This can be interpreted very very badly!

It's rather worrying that there are adults out there who don't know how consent works!

Wrong there is often other evidence. Look at the recent France case with filming it for their own perverted pleasure. Happens more than you would know.

These men have been empowered by society who have ignored their lesser sex crimes so they feel bold and powerful.

My rapist confessed to me. Said he loved forcing me when he was gloating the day after so it was all on text.

My friend's rapist confessed when she challenged him he admitted it and apologised for his abuse and rape. She had documented it all and all his threats etc.

A guy I started dating started telling me how he used to have sex with his wife when she was asleep. I reported him.

All 3 on text as evidence of rape.

All the women I work with and have worked with have had substantial evidence.

Well, if the woman has lied about taking the pill, then yes. If she is actually taking the pill as agreed then the extra percentage of protection that condom brings is absolutely tiny.

They're not being irresponsible. Someone they love has agreed to take on the responsibility on both of their behalves. And then lied about actually doing it.

There is often other evidence

Yes. And there often isn't. None of the people I have spoken to as victims had substantial evidence. Myself included.

Both those statements are true.

Someone they love has agreed to take on the responsibility on their both of their behalves. And then lied about actually doing it

Yoi could say the same about men leaving the woman to bring up the kids. They agree to have a baby then desert the family. Leaving 1 parent with all the responsibility

If the shoe were on the other foot and a man lied about using a condom, it’s rape. Consent has not been given for sex in this manner.

I’m guessing because sperm donors don’t have to pay?

Eh? Whats wrong with what I’ve said? I’m simply saying you can say “I want sex for fun!” But it wont stop biology working its magic. Sex is basically supposed to end on a baby. So people can’t moan when sex ends on a baby really.

Agree, that's equally abohherent.

Or you could look at it like: if one method fails at least we have the other to fall back on

There is always physical evidence. There is always DNA evidence. Then sometimes there isn't other evidence.

Both cannot be true at the same time. It is mathematically impossible.

Yeah it apparently men can’t be expected to be responsible adults so I think they get a free pass

Fucking hell here we go again.

a man steal thing is rape because it’s an assault on the body. This is not the case the other way around. HTH

Consent based on contraception is consent based on contraception. These women should be sentenced to ten years hanging out in the Ecuadorean embassy.

MUCH easier for men than women. it's taken me being 44, and being concerned about changing from contraception that has never let me down in 20 ISH years to finally get referred to get my tubes tied. my husband has agreed if they refuse me that, he'll apply for a vasectomy.

I know it's easier for him, but he doesn't feel AS strongly about it as I do. realistically, we both know we aren't mentally or physically in a good place to be parents. and with our genetics, I don't fancy the chances of any children we would have.

Yeah If you report straight away and can tell them exactly where it happened and give the assurance the scene hasn’t been cleaned! If which very few reports of rape actually have!

The DNA is only evidence that sex took place. Not rape.

The legal definition of rape is specific to the physical act of inserting objects into orifices without consent, but the widely held definition of rape is 'sex without consent'.

You're relying upon the very narrow legal definition of rape to excuse sex without consent, which the vast majority of the population consider to be 'rape'.

As a childless woman who chooses to use the pill as the only means of contraception - it doesn’t always win.

If I fall pregnant, I’d be in the low percentage of women that do whilst on the pill; and that is a risk both my partner and I take.

If I didn’t take it and fall pregnant, that is one persons fault - mine, because it is the only method we use, following a discussion about what we both wanted. He is operating on that in good faith, and I could just change that without telling him. Which is devious and out of line.

Oh please.

One is rape the other is not.

Sex of two people with equal power with deceit is still consensual. The way a married man sleeping with a woman who think he’s single, is still consensual. Dont muddy the two

There’s a lot more men on here now and it shows. Not just this thread, but looking at the semantics across the board and its ruining Mumsnet.

I got laughed at by the GP when I asked to be sterilised. Men absolutely do not need to already have kids to get a vasectomy

Most happen in the home.