It's another MIL one (sorry!)

[excluded57]

I will try and keep this brief but give the complete picture without drip feeding but just wonder AIBU to feel completely cut off and left out in this situation?

I am the MIL, my oldest son lives with his wife 30 miles away from us. They got married this year, her parents live round the corner.

They have been together about 6 years, and for the last 5 years every Christmas and New Year has been spent at their house with DIL's immediate family. They bought their house nearly 3 years ago, we were all invited there once and I have visited once on my own briefly since then.

Since the wedding 6 months ago we have seen them 3 times when they came to our house, 2 of which times were to collect their dog which we had looked after for them while they were on holiday and honeymoon.

We went to the wedding, I have 4 other boys (all still at home) and we all suited up and gave them a generous cheque which they appreciated. (I wasn't included in any of the pre wedding "stuff" but OK fair enough, that's not to be expected as a MIL and I didn't make any comment, there were 2 hen do's and I would have loved to have been asked to one but it wasn't to be and I respect that, not a word was said about that other than to my DH). I hope I get on well with my DIL, I always make an effort to be friendly and supportive and try to be the MIL I would like to have.

This Christmas however has been a bit of a revelation, I haven't seen my son or his wife at all since mid November, had a brief Facetime with him on Christmas Day and a text message New Years Eve to thank us for their presents. (Both times they had family with them, her family not any of us sadly).

I don't want to interfere, I wait to be invited, particularly as there are 6 of us if all of us are asked which is a lot to accommodate even for a short visit, but this Christmas has been a killer and I suppose it has given me a taste of how things will be in the future if they have children, I will have very little chance to bond with any GC if things stay as they are.

I get the old adage about a son is a son until he gets a wife, but I am so hurt. I did text him after he asked his brother if I was OK because I had only briefly replied to the NYE text. So I simply said I was sad we never see them, and got an essay about they have been busy and they get fed up of always coming to us (unless of course it is to drop off or collect their dog ...... yet they never ever ask us there, other than a BBQ in the summer which happened to be the day after I buried my mum so I didn't feel like going to that and explained why and thought they understood) I really don't think he gets the issue somehow, I did say to him I don't expect regular visits but the odd phone call would be appreciated. (There was a bit more I could have said, like saying we are never invited or they don't mind travelling here if there is free dog care but I didn't, I wanted to avoid an argument)

How on earth do other MILs in this situation cope?? It is heartbreaking and I am struggling to accept that this side of the family is definitely right down the pecking order ....... Words of wisdom will be hugely appreciated x

I don't know why you're fitting such a pile on OP. You were obviously ignored and ghosted. Your own son made no effort to see you over the whole holiday, there is no excuse for that. I would be very upfront and clear with him about it.

I see my mum every Saturday for the day.
It’s a lot to fit in around working full time and keeping on top of my housework etc.
But I figure she won’t be around forever so sod the housework ❤️

^This!

I find it extremely odd that it doesn't seem to have occurred to your son (or your DIL for that matter!) that you might like to see them over Christmas as well. It's one of those things you figure out fairly early on.

We actually spent our first married Christmas separately - he went to his family and I went to mine. We had no car at the time and logistically it was just easier. Then we tried a couple of years of visiting both families on Christmas Day which was just a disaster. Then we decided that my family's food and craic was so much better than his, that we went to mine on Christmas Day and invited his to our house on Boxing Day.

I'm just trying to imagine if it was my son. I couldn't picture not being able to tell him how I was feeling. I'd like to think he would know anyway without having to have to have it spelled out to him.

@excluded57 You need to have a conversation with your son, on his own preferably, and let him know that you're hurt.

I agree that you need to initiate things, whether it is them coming to visit you or you visiting.
Beyond the distance, the reason they see her family more is very likely because she sorts it out! If your son isn't planning visits and neither are you, nothing will happen.
My husband never organise anything with his mum unless prompted (by me or his sisters), and she rarely does suggest it. We rarely see her as a result, I've kind of given up after a couple of years.

That includes Christmas, if you never ask to host them under he assumption that it will be rejected, then indeed it will never happen. And don't wait until Christmas day, give them a chance to get used to the idea, and make alternative arrangements with her family.
Or agree with them to do a Christmas lunch on any other day if you don't really care, there are lots of options to make this work for everyone.

Same, worked FT and had three children. Probably would have seen mum and dad more often if we had lived nearer. I phoned them every single day as well.

My mum passed away relatively young so I am glad I have those memories.

That's not the point. It's not fair if all family arrangements encompass her family to the exclusion of the OP's family!

Your BIL must be extremely limited in his conversation. I have 2 BILs, one brother, and my late dad, and often uncles and family friends who all gathered over the festive season in my parents' house, and they didn't talk "man's talk" at all!!! Most of them had no interest in football either!

Take him at his word, he wants to see you. Message ds and say hi would love to pop over this weekend or next. Which works better for you?
Ring him once a week to check in for a chat. Also message her to check in.
It's likely his wife does most of their organising and she naturally organises stuff with her family. And assumes if he wants to he will organise to see his family.

If your attempts are unsuccessful then yes it would seem you are unfortunately not in favour but you need to try at least.

I agree with other posters. The way you have framed this as a MiL problem is extremely telling. It's like you've set this up as a competition between you and your DiL and her family for your son's time and affections. Try not to see it as a competition. It's a collective endeavour to see family as much as is feasible.

Hopefully you've had a few ideas from this thread as to how to make this happen. You could always use the new year as your excuse to initiate a new communication style or a new demand that you haven't done before. It's also OK to tell your son you miss him and want to see him, but then add on something practical like, what are you doing on X weekend? so it's not just a passive aggressive moan but it gets you closer to getting what you actually want.

Do you have much of an individual relationship with your son or, as the OP implies, do you tend to lump all five boys together? It’s a pretty common dynamic in large families, especially when all of the children are one sex, to view them collectively and “never leave anyone out” (not give each child individual time). It’s also quite common for children in those types of families to want to break away and spend more time with their spouses’ families, where they are individuals by default and not forced to compete with all of their siblings.

For all that I said that OP needs to be more proactive, I find it really weird that it doesn't occur to her son that he might include his family (he has a father and several siblings as well, not just his mum) in his Christmas.
And as a DIL I always had Christmas conversations with my late husband that assumed involvement of his family. So they're both of them being a bit crap, IMO.

I presume that OP's dad and brothers feel a bit hurt by his lack of interest, too.

Do not just turn up (and particularly not if you insist on travelling as a team of 6)!!

She can only control her own actions, if she wants a better relationship, no point in playing the blame game

My MIL is like you and im sorry to say it pisses me off. Unless I actually call to say do you want to come for dinner we dont actually hear from them as they dont like to 'interfere'. So, it just becomes me hosting them all the time when wither me or my husband ring them. I actually invited ourselves over next weekend as we havent seen them since November and Im sick of doing the cooking everytime. We were most welcome of course but still us doing the arranging

This is very good advice IMO.
jUst being relaxed about it and sending little messages not about seeing eachother but building up relationships with both of them is a good idea. It’s lovely you care.
im a single mum - i offered to cook and do Xmas for both my actual parents this year at their home as DC and me haven’t seen them now since Covid at Christmas. They still refused and said no they’d rather we didn’t go as they wanted a quiet one.
my brother visited them the weekend beforehand. I don’t see him at Xmas anymore as his new(ish) wife only wants to see her family at Xmas so unless my DC and me join them we don’t see my brother either.
this year was just the 3 of us again - gotta say, I was sad deep down but made it nice for DC. I would like to have someone keen to see us!! So keep persevering in a nice way @excluded57 ! Happy new year x

Make up excuses to be near by ‘your father and I are popping to the national trust near your house next weekend - can we pop in for a cup of tea on the way home’ etc

We aren't a dressing up family, I work outside so live in scruffy stuff

nothing wrong with this, but is the DIL insta-fabulous? That would be incredibly superficial reason for the distance, possibly an associated personality mismatch though?

If I were you, I would think of some new habits that would work for all of you and then see if that can become a tradition over time if it works well.

e.g. leading up to Christmas:

• Could you book a trip to some nearby Christmas lights?
• Meet for an early Christmas present swap the week before Christmas?
• Have a family trip to the pantomime?
• Schedule a National Trust walk, with dogs, on around the 27th?

Make it easy and appealing.

Also, if her family are important to her, you could work to get to know them. How about invite all of both sides to yours for a meal at Easter?

Have you considered inviting DS, DIL and some of her immediate family to your home?
If that isn't the case they might all feel like you're keeping your distance because you do not want to socialise with everyone.
Communication only works if it is a two way thing.

I bet they have the arrangement that he deals with his family & she deals with her family & he just doesn't bother organising stuff at the weekends & goes along with whatever his wife has organised.

I see so many couples where the wife organises their entire social life and the husband goes along with it because that's more work he doesn't have to do. He's lazy.
Shared onlin̈e calendars exist to sort work/kids/ social life.

But Christmas Day is a special occasion, often with 'emergency chairs' and very different from casually visiting. An impromptu visit from 6 guests would not be welcome!!

My MIL (who I get on well with) was a "wait for an invitation" sort. It became clear that she was getting upset over the lack of invitations. I had a chat with her (because I get on well with her and don't think everything should be left to me for my side and DH for his side) and explained that if my mum (who I don't particularly get on with) is missing us, feeling she hasn't seen us, in the local area etc will call or message to see when we're free for a visit or will offer to babysit or invite us round to hers. And that we do the same when local to her.

Since then things have got much better - they understand I don't favour my side of the family/ I'm not keeping DH from them/ excluding them from the grandkids lives etc.

For me, they're family, they're welcome anytime, but don't wait for an invite or you'll be waiting forever!

I agree with PPs. I've been married 25 years and we've never invited my MIL to anything. If she wants to come she asks if it's ok. She's even been on holidays with us, where she's asked if it's ok to tag along.

Their Christmas is pretty much set in stone, Christmas Eve and Christmas Day her family at their house and then boxing day they go to her extended family. I did message just before Christmas to say we would be free anytime from Christmas Day onwards and would love to see them but was ghosted until NYE when I just got a text wishing me happy new year.

We have Christmas with MIL in the middle of December rather than actual Christmas. The weekend is agreed around September so whoever is travelling can sort out a hotel and pet sitting.

I know you've been trying not to be pushy but you've swung the pendulum too far and are being too passive, which will be coming across as disinterested.

I don’t understand why you would suggest boxing day when you know they always see her extended family that day. I wonder if they didn't reply because they didn't want to get into a guilt tripping conversation.

Just to add, as the eldest child, if you’re never making any effort to spend 1 on 1 time with your son and always insisting on dragging the others along with you I really would just stop making the effort as well.