It's another MIL one (sorry!)

[excluded57]

I will try and keep this brief but give the complete picture without drip feeding but just wonder AIBU to feel completely cut off and left out in this situation?

I am the MIL, my oldest son lives with his wife 30 miles away from us. They got married this year, her parents live round the corner.

They have been together about 6 years, and for the last 5 years every Christmas and New Year has been spent at their house with DIL's immediate family. They bought their house nearly 3 years ago, we were all invited there once and I have visited once on my own briefly since then.

Since the wedding 6 months ago we have seen them 3 times when they came to our house, 2 of which times were to collect their dog which we had looked after for them while they were on holiday and honeymoon.

We went to the wedding, I have 4 other boys (all still at home) and we all suited up and gave them a generous cheque which they appreciated. (I wasn't included in any of the pre wedding "stuff" but OK fair enough, that's not to be expected as a MIL and I didn't make any comment, there were 2 hen do's and I would have loved to have been asked to one but it wasn't to be and I respect that, not a word was said about that other than to my DH). I hope I get on well with my DIL, I always make an effort to be friendly and supportive and try to be the MIL I would like to have.

This Christmas however has been a bit of a revelation, I haven't seen my son or his wife at all since mid November, had a brief Facetime with him on Christmas Day and a text message New Years Eve to thank us for their presents. (Both times they had family with them, her family not any of us sadly).

I don't want to interfere, I wait to be invited, particularly as there are 6 of us if all of us are asked which is a lot to accommodate even for a short visit, but this Christmas has been a killer and I suppose it has given me a taste of how things will be in the future if they have children, I will have very little chance to bond with any GC if things stay as they are.

I get the old adage about a son is a son until he gets a wife, but I am so hurt. I did text him after he asked his brother if I was OK because I had only briefly replied to the NYE text. So I simply said I was sad we never see them, and got an essay about they have been busy and they get fed up of always coming to us (unless of course it is to drop off or collect their dog ...... yet they never ever ask us there, other than a BBQ in the summer which happened to be the day after I buried my mum so I didn't feel like going to that and explained why and thought they understood) I really don't think he gets the issue somehow, I did say to him I don't expect regular visits but the odd phone call would be appreciated. (There was a bit more I could have said, like saying we are never invited or they don't mind travelling here if there is free dog care but I didn't, I wanted to avoid an argument)

How on earth do other MILs in this situation cope?? It is heartbreaking and I am struggling to accept that this side of the family is definitely right down the pecking order ....... Words of wisdom will be hugely appreciated x

Given that everyone on Mumsnet hates people just turning up, this is a spectacularly bad idea.

Was there no conversation about Christmas? What are you doing for Christmas? Oh well if you’ve got a house full of your wife’s family Christmas Day, come to us for Boxing Day or shall we come to you?

If your son is in his 30s and he can message a brother to ask if you’re ok, presumably the other sons are not children and don’t have to be taken on every visit?

I've never once invited my mother or MIL to my house. They just turn up. It would never cross my mind to make formal invitations.

30 miles away isn't exactly huge - can you not just find reasons to be in the area and give them a call and ask if you can pop by on your way back from XYZ?

Don't wait for an invite. Message them either a few days in advance or on the day.

My aunt and uncle in law are like sudo parents to my DH (my in laws live in Australia). They live 60 miles away and we manage to met on average very 6 weeks or so. They don't wait for an invite but we arrange dates in advance (we both have school aged children with lots of activities). If they are near us for whatever reason they call and ask to pop in. We do the same .I have a friend that live near them so regularly call and pop in on the way or way back if they are around on the day.

With Christmas be upfront with them about wanting to spend it with them. They may think you have enough going on with your other sons.

Op did you invite them?
All seems very formal to me. And from the other side it could appear you aren't interested in them.

Remember Buzby 'it's good to talk'

What a shame your son has chosen not to contact you.

You should probably talk to him about it, since his choices are upsetting you.

I'm a mother to daughters and MIL to sons, but I'm still really cautious about inserting myself into their lives.

For a long time I was like you and waited for invitations that didn't often come. But it turned out that they saw that as me not being that bothered. So now I message and just say 'is anyone around for a catch up this weekend? No pressure!" and I see a lot more of them.

It's bizarre that you didn't have a Christmas conversation though. Again, I recognise the pressure that adult kids can feel from their parents, so I phrase things pretty carefully. But I'd definitely have starred a conversation about what everyone's plans are, and when we might get together. So I suspect that you're being more passive than you need be, or your talking a back seat might be being misinterpreted.

What everyone else said. My MIL always waits for an invite even though we’ve both told her numerous times she’s always welcome and to just let us know when she’d like to visit. She does this with all her children and honestly it’s a bit tiresome. We all have children and work full time, it’s just another thing to organise.

Actually thinking about it, she always waits for us to invite ourselves to hers as well…

Well how often are you in touch with your DS? When did you have the conversation about Christmas arrangements?

My DS and DIl (30) were abroad this year, visiting DILs family. I knew in about July. They were supposed to come before Xmas for our family Christmas lunch but I was ill and had to cancel. We are having it tomorrow. They arrive here tonight at about 1.30am, directly from LHR.

They live about 240 miles away.

It doesn't sound as though you are being very pro-active.

Why do you thinknitnwas a big deal to "suit up" for the wedding? What did you expect to do?

So have a chat with your son, he said he doesn’t want to always visit you. Sounds like he’d like you to visit him, have you actually suggested this, rather than waiting for an invite?

This sounds like quite a similar position that my mum finds herself in with my brother.

She sees it as a “them vs me” situation, as in, she’s not the preferred choice when it comes to family visits. The reality is, my SIL is just better at organising to see her family. My brother is rubbish 😂 My mum blames her, says my brother doesn’t get a look in on plans, but it’s entirely up to her and him to sort their relationship, not my SIL.

I hope that makes sense. I do understand the hurt you’re feeling, and have comforted my mum through a lot of the same issues, but honestly putting more effort in to make plans with your son is the best way to go about it!

I agree that the waiting for an invite for the entire family sounds very formal.

just comparing this to my own situation... I would never think to do this with my in-laws unless I was hosting something formal. Both my parents and my parents in law visit without an invitation. I would hate for them to be expecting an invitation every time.

Edit to add, I really don't think comparing time spent with both families is going to help your situation. Worry about yourself and don't mind the other side of their family!

Firstly I hate that saying "A son's a son until he finds a wife". Ok, maybe this sometimes happens but certainly doesn't have to be the case. My DH and brothers are absolutely not like this!
Secondly, I really think you're holding back too much. Of course, you don't want to be the pushy mother/MIL but you're being way too timid and humble. Sop passively waiting for invitations and start arranging things. My parents just say to my brothers and me "We thought we'd pop over next Saturday. Are you free?" or they might say "We haven't see you for a while, do you fancy coming round for dinner?". You're rightly complaining about them but at the same time you're making no efforts to see them either.
Some people aren't malicious, they're just thoughtless. They need a kick up the bum! Your son is one of these people.

Think it’s more of a you problem tbh. 30 miles is nothing, I commute that every day for work. Why are you waiting for an invitation and why do all 6 of you need to travel en masse? I would imagine that’s actually quite intimidating for your DIL?
Surely you must have got to know her before the wedding? My DS is only 20 but I know his girlfriend, we message each other and go to cinema or out for a coffee.

Agree re not stopping talking to your son just because he's married. My husband is still the main one in our family who phones his parents and will often visit them without me as they're not that far away. I didn't see my son over Christmas but I chatted to him a few times on Messenger and he sent some photos to the family Whatsapp.

We all have children and work full time,

But @MilitantFawcett that's probably exactly the reason why she doesn't just call in. It's certainly the reason that I don't invite myself to my daughters at short or no notice. I know how busy they are and assume that the last thing they want is me just turning up when they have precious downtime.

You might need to make it clear to her that she'll always be welcome and that it's actually easier for you if she is the decision maker.

Also rather than blaming DIL perhaps her and her family are just more proactive whereas you and your son have organised anything!

Perhaps they see her family because she arranges to do so?

Maybe they both prefer being with her family?

If neither you nor your son ask to see each other though, well then you won't see each other!

You could have asked about Christmas Eve/Boxing Day I would have thought.

Perhaps they don't want t always see all of you?

From your son and his wife's point of view, do you think they feel a bit like you aren't bothering with them? Since you don't ever suggest anything and you wait for an invite, I assume that when you DO see them, it's always them doing the suggesting or inviting. That would annoy me too after a while. If I want to spend time with anyone- family, friends etc, I would just message and say "miss your face, when are you free for a catch up?". Why don't you invite them to do something or ask if they're free for you to visit on X date? Maybe they don't think you want to if you never suggest it?

'but the odd phone call would be appreciated'

so your son doesn't phone you often / if at all

are you hoping / expecting his new wife to do so ?

hopefully not.

and it would never have occurred to me to invite my mil on my hen do, just like I never invited my Mum - different age range.

Loads of great advice on here.

Can I ask, when you visit, do you stay for a long time? I think that there is a lot to be said for lots of quick visits rather than appearing all six of you and taking up a whole afternoon.

So, in the spirit of being helpful, I would suggest that you arrange to meet half way for a Saturday lunch (much less formal than Sunday).

Or arrange a day in their area and just say you'll pop in for a coffee for an hour?

If you value the possibility of building a better relationship before any GC come along (and I would) it would be worth suggesting a few chilled shorter visits as other posters have suggested.

My DCs are still at home, but I suspect one will be better about seeing us than the other, but I never never want them to dread seeing us, or see it as a chore, or something very formal.

The saying ‘a son is a son until he takes a wife’ is only true if you’ve raised a man-child who can’t communicate with his family. It’s nothing to do with your DIL.

You’re 30 miles away, not the other side of the world. You could do a visit in a morning. If you don’t want to drive to them, you can also suggest a dog walk or pub halfway between you.

We don’t live near either side, both sides will message and say “thinking of visiting, what dates can’t you do?”

I'd stop the free dog care.

You are wise to keep your counsel because frankly I think you are being unrealistic. I get on really well with all of my children and their spouses because I don’t have any expectations of them. I saw my eldest just after Christmas. He came with his wife and children and it is the first time I had seen my DiL in over 18 months. It was lovely to have a long catch-up with her. I understand that she is busy and likes to use the time when my son is here with children to do things for herself.

Once you started chastising them for their lack of visits you immediately put their backs up and they went on the attack..

Hopefully you have not done too much damage. Work on the premise that you won’t see them and be enthusiastic when they do come.

As for seeing her own family, this complaint drives me mad. Of course she does, it is the most natural thing.

My husband quite often used to ask his mum if her phone was broken as it only seemed to take incoming calls...

Get on the phone! I have another friend whose mum would play telephone chicken with her, i.e. the mum would never phone, simply because she wanted to complain about how long it was since her daughter last called her. Funnily enough, it did not make her want to call her mother.
I mean, why would you call someone who is just going to bitch at you because you have not called them for a set period of time?

And when she got on the phone, she wanted really long conversations. If your son is young, working, and has a social life he may not want long involved chats with you. Again, it can feel like a chore.