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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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32
Goldenbear · 03/01/2025 13:15

Chainzreaction · 03/01/2025 13:13

So stopping men from raping 10 & 11 year old is a dictatorship now! You are aware of the age of consent & that all these children were raped & drugged.
If a dictatorship stops the exploitation of our most vulnerable then bring it on!

My goodness showing your true colours in advocating for a dictatorship. As a Mother I find that desire morally repugnant?

You haven't answered my question, are you British?

Sunworshiper · 03/01/2025 13:16

fromthevault · 03/01/2025 13:15

The other post gave examples. Why can't you?

Or is this another of your pointless, fact-free 'do your own research' posts?

This is a forum for discussion, not a school. I’m not here to teach the ignorant. 😂

Sasskitty · 03/01/2025 13:16

Chainzreaction · 03/01/2025 13:11

As a labour voter I'd actually like Labour to step up & actually do the job they have promised to do.

Bingo

Ps. This thread will rapidly fill up. It’s a great thread keeping horrific issues highlighted. Whether we agree with Elon Musk, or not. Def set up a continuation thread later (if you have the will to, of course!)

cardibach · 03/01/2025 13:16

Sunworshiper · 03/01/2025 13:14

now that reply makes me doubly embarrassed for you now. 😂

Edited

So I take it you can’t then?
Because I can’t come up with any other any other interpretation of you being ‘embarrassed’ for someone not seeing something you claim to be able to see but refusing to explain. If Labour are so awful and so close to that definition it should be piss easy for you to give examples and educate me.

OneAmberFinch · 03/01/2025 13:17

Totallymessed · 03/01/2025 13:01

So has the famous inquiry actually achieved anything? Or does the fact that it simply took place enough for everyone to just move on now?

How many prosecutions, sackings and resignations of officials involved have happened? How many are still doing the exact same job as they were when they allowed the rape and torture of thousands of girls?

We've just seen Paula Vennels (rightly) be excoriated in the press. What are the names of these councillors and police officers? Where is their personal public accountability?

These are all the right questions.

An inquiry only has a purpose if it leads to action.

And it should be an inquiry specifically into this phenomenon of mainly Pakistani Muslim men using their community networks in the police, councils etc to avoid scrutiny.

Not just into all CSA generally.

azu · 03/01/2025 13:18

Musk has his own agenda. He does not care about the victims.

I worked for a street outreach project in a major northern city in the late 1980s/ early 1990s.

The activities of 'rape gangs' was going on then, and this was both before and after the Children's Act came into force in 1989. Children forced into 'prostitution' (as it was called at the time) through abuse, violence, threats, rape, drugs. Children arrested for 'prostitution' and not recognised as victims of abuse. Children imprisoned in houses to 'prime' or 'season' them for 'prostitution'. Children coerced and emotionally abused by adults pretending to be in 'relationships' with them.

The response of the authorities (police, social services) was terrible. Aside from arresting children (although I am not aware of any charges being brought), when pushed they would claim their hands were tied - for example, children were not willing to make statements against their abusers. We would give names, addresses - if it was acted on, it would be to remove children but not prosecute the men involved.

The point I want to make here though is that ALL the children we came across were in Local Authority Care Homes. They also happened to all be white (in a very diverse city) - and with little if any contact with family, and from unsafe, abusive backgrounds. Socio-economically deprived backgrounds. No family willing or able or aware of the situation to intervene. The gangs involved were all men, although they would 'recruit' slightly older young people, often young women, to 'groom' vulnerable children. The men were not from one ethnicity - but from ALL ethnicities. And children - quite clearly children - who were 'pimped' out on the street (mainly girls, but also boys) were abused by men of all classes and ethnic backgrounds. The only thing the perpetrators had in common were they were all men, and they were all paedophiles.

What I took away from this was that these men will target the most vulnerable children in our society in these cases of systematic gang abuse. And in the cases I'm outlining here, the lack of action was not an attitude towards the perpetrators, but an attitude towards the victims, who were seen as problematic, difficult children who would regularly abscond from care homes. Children who seemed tough, aggressive, who had an 'issue' with authority. These were children not attending school, taking drugs, whose lives were already 'scripted' by the authorities.

It was heartbreaking. I can't read the details of all these cases coming to light now, as it takes me right back, but I know about the 'race' issue of course, and Musk using this to simultaneously attack Starmer and 'immigrants' of a particular ethnicity. I am aware that these were not all children in the care system, and families were not listened to, just as we weren't.
In my experience, though, it was always about how the victims were viewed, rather than 'protecting' the perpetrators - that the children somehow were not worthy of safeguarding, they were somehow complicit in their own abuse.

Has that changed with these more recent cases?

Tryingtokeepgoing · 03/01/2025 13:18

Feelingathomenow · 03/01/2025 13:08

I’d say the Labour Party fit that definition very well.

And that’s the dichotomy the left face. There are two factions to it - the Islington lot, and what used to be the large voter base they depended on to deliver strong majorities. Historically the unionised, working class masses. The two are uneasy bedfellows, but rubbed along because they could see the mutual benefit in working together. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer, so to speak.

The reality is that the masses were always being played. Now that someone else (Farage) is mobilising them to his cause they are very vocal about them and their ‘far right’ views. The reality they don’t want to face is that, for the large part, it’s the same people that used to support them that now support Farage. So, either the populations views have shifted hugely, or how the left view them has shifted…

The leadership have always know that, and that’s why Corbyn and Starmer didn’t present a robust case for ‘remain’ during the Brexit campaign. And we are all worse off because they didn’t - as usual they put the pursuit of power before what was right for the country. Like so many politicians. But there’s an inherent arrogance or naivety, I’m not sure which, in the moderately educated middle class left that they are always morally right. A belief not based on any evidence

JHound · 03/01/2025 13:18

bombastix · 03/01/2025 13:00

This is drivel. Do you understand anything about how the UK works?

I am starting to suspect that commenter is not English, not British. They could even be a bored Musk alias (we know he had plenty on social media….)

MojoMoon · 03/01/2025 13:19

Feelingathomenow · 03/01/2025 13:04

Do you believe that girls as young as 11 were raped and abused by gangs of men, do you believe the woman who brought this to light when she says it’s still happening? Do you think we need to stop it.

I don’t give a shit about people’s motives when they pile on pressure for the rape and abuse of children to stop. It doesn’t matter, it just needs to stop.

Yes I believe girls were raped and yes I believe it is still happening.
I believe it is likely that there continues to be abuse of girls by men of Pakistani heritage. And by men of British, Irish, American, Nigerian, Polish, Australian, Saudi, Chinese etc heritage.

But how does demanding another inquiry "make it stop"? Inquiries are not some magic wand. They are just people soberly researching and giving recommendations that governments are free to ignore.

So if is entirely possible to both be opposed to the rape of women and girls and to oppose having another inquiry. In my view, it would be better for the government to report in detail on the 2022 inquiries findings and which ones is does support implementing, how and why.

It is also entirely possible to oppose the rape of girls and to believe that Elon Musk is using this as an attempt to win support for his chosen political party rather than due to his actual concern for the safety of women and girls and to be believe that the safety of women would be overall enhanced if that party were not in power.

It's not like a football team where you only support one side - it's a policy debate, in which it is perfectly possible to recognise that there are many complex elements and that differing proposals can all contain certain elements of truth or good ideas, and it isn't Team Pro-Rape of Girls vs Team Anti-Rape of Girls.

OP posts:
fromthevault · 03/01/2025 13:19

Sunworshiper · 03/01/2025 13:16

This is a forum for discussion, not a school. I’m not here to teach the ignorant. 😂

Well, how about contributing to the discussion, then? With, you know, examples of your arguments?

Nope. Thought not. Still perhaps unsurprising from someone who has mis-spelled their own username.

PeppyGreenFinch · 03/01/2025 13:19

GeneralPeter · 03/01/2025 13:12

Elon Musk is probably not a nice guy, but he's actually done a huge amount of social good, including (I'd say especially) for poor people. He's just done it by solving specific underlying problems rather than by applying a sticking plaster later.

He's made his money by:

• pioneering internet payments, accelerating e-commerce which helps keep costs down (and helps those who are less mobile too),
• driving development of electric vehicles and battery tech, and driving down costs, which are real, tangible steps towards addressing the climate crisis, which threatens low-income people and countries especially
• democratizing access to telecoms in remote/poor/disrupted areas via StarLink

On AI, the most revolutionary technology of the century, his big move was to try to make AI-development non-profit (via OpenAI) and safe, passing up an opportunity to make hundred of billions of dollars in the process.

Judged by concrete steps not by words, which living people do you think have done more for humanity?

What a load of crap. PayPal was co-founded by Max Levchin, Peter Thiel and Luke Nosek.

Poor people cannot afford Teslas.

Luminousalumnus · 03/01/2025 13:19

Yes this is excellent news. I really don't care who shines a light on these disgusting assaults that are still occurring. In this country we have had more outrage from the media about Gisèle Pelicot, than about these 1000s of disadvantaged girls who have been raped and tortured. Not the right sort of victims and not the right sort of perpetrators it seems.

Gunnersforthecup · 03/01/2025 13:19

Sunworshiper · 03/01/2025 13:12

Oh, I’m embarrassed for you now.

Labour are far from perfect, but Reform fit those criteria far better than Labour.

Horserider5678 · 03/01/2025 13:19

Feelingathomenow · 03/01/2025 13:04

Do you believe that girls as young as 11 were raped and abused by gangs of men, do you believe the woman who brought this to light when she says it’s still happening? Do you think we need to stop it.

I don’t give a shit about people’s motives when they pile on pressure for the rape and abuse of children to stop. It doesn’t matter, it just needs to stop.

Where did I say I didn’t believe what has been going on? But that is not why Musk is doing this and you clearly cannot see this! Why is he not questioning the what is happening to white men who commit these abhorrent crimes? Can you not see that Musk is a racist, he grew up in South Africa during its worst period in history under apartheid!
Do you really lack the intellect not to see what his ulterior motive is? Trump cannot work with Starmer, therefore Musk is trying to influence Charles to dissolve parliament, so Musk can throw money at the Reform party and ensure that the disillusioned British voter votes for Nasty Nigel and his cronies! Hopefully Charles politely told him to go F&&& himself!

GeneralPeter · 03/01/2025 13:20

Globusmedia · 03/01/2025 09:03

Elon Musk is a eugenecist. That's who you are supporting in trying to interfere with our government.

When a pre-natal scan detects foetal abnormalities (including perfectly survivable ones), the mother is informed and she has a choice about whether to abort on that basis.

Do you support her right to choose?

(I'm just trying to work out if you are an anti-eugenicist, or if your beef with Musk is about which flavour of eugenics you favour)

thousandsofdreams · 03/01/2025 13:20

Sasskitty · 03/01/2025 13:16

Bingo

Ps. This thread will rapidly fill up. It’s a great thread keeping horrific issues highlighted. Whether we agree with Elon Musk, or not. Def set up a continuation thread later (if you have the will to, of course!)

I try to ignore anyone who says "bingo".

poetryandwine · 03/01/2025 13:21

thousandsofdreams · 03/01/2025 12:45

Obviously, but I am not sure why you think he'd need British security clearance? The people who might be pulling strings are not likely to be exclusively involved in British politics. Going a step above that is more likely.

Why would the British authorities share knowledge of British crime, a domestic issue, in a manner accessible to Elon Musk? He wouldn’t have access to Interpol, either.

American authorities have only recently started briefing those members of Trump’s team who have passed their FBI vettings, because someone didn’t want Trump to use the FBI, but to go private with security searches instead. It is unclear whether Musk has completed his vetting. In any case I doubt whether the Americans care about this now.

So I am afraid I don’t see a factual source open to EM. That you think someone is ‘pulling the strings’ sounds like you believe in a conspiracy theory. Do please explain

Babybaby2025 · 03/01/2025 13:21

Chainzreaction · 03/01/2025 13:07

It doesn't matter who is doing it. What matters is that this is in the full spotlight internationally & govt are humiliated into immediate action for the sake of ALL us women & our daughters. This must never happen again.
Elon Musk is playing a blinder as is J.K Rowling. It's ridiculous we are depending on influential celebrities to protect us in our own country, doing the job our government should be doing but here we are.
Awareness is rising which is always a very good thing seeing as we cannot trust or rely on mainstream media.

It does matter who's doing it. Just like price andrew being a voice for girls rights and safety would be ridiculous

Feelingathomenow · 03/01/2025 13:21

MonkeyToHeaven · 03/01/2025 13:02

And the stirring up of racists?

I think Labours inaction is doing this fairly effectively in any case.

OP posts:
namechangeGOT · 03/01/2025 13:21

People are aware that these gangs have been arrested, tried and are serving sentences; aren't they?
You can look up their sentences on wikipedia. Some got life.

@AdventFridgeOfShame

You are aware that these gangs are still in operation in my hometown of Rotherham?! Or do you think they got all the bad naughty misters and sent them all to prison, oh you sweet summer child!!

Noerc · 03/01/2025 13:21

My goodness showing your true colours in advocating for a dictatorship.

We finally got there - not about sex crimes against girls at all, surprise, surprise.

How safe from sexual abuse and other horrors do you think the women and girls living under the world’s authoritarian regimes are, op?

CuddlyDodoToy · 03/01/2025 13:21

Goldenbear

Even your correction doesn't make sense, but if you are suggesting Elon Musk's expressed concern is damaging to democracy and more dangerous to children than the rape and abuse perpetrated by these gangs, I have to disagree.

Influential people often comment and express concern about the leaders and governments of other countries without being accused of undermining democracy. Some of our politicians certainly haven't held back on giving opinions about leaders of other countries, most recently Donald Trump.

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