To think the British educational system is all wrong?

[CookiePlough]

It seems like the aim is to make adults out of children as soon as possible rather than allowing them enough time to just be kids.

My main issues are that 1. kids start school way too early and 2. spend way too much time in school.

What is the purpose of a 4 year old child learning to read and write and do addition and subtraction? How does this help the child either in the present or in the future when they are an adult? I can see that 4 year olds are clearly capable of learning these things and of course being able to read or do simple arithmetic is not a problem. The problem is what are they missing out on in order to learn these skills? In my opinion they are missing out on playing. Unstructured, self determined playing. You can learn academics at a later age but you can't really make up for not getting enough playtime as a child. However, this wouldn't be a problem if the school day wasn't so ridiculously long. There just isn't enough time to play after school. There is no time to go anywhere after school (eg the park), for playdates, for any play that takes longer than an hour, to do extra curricular activities (without missing out on Unstructured play time) or anything else. Everything has to be done on the weekend but then when do you have time to do things as a family?

I understand most kids have 2 parents working full time so kids need to be in some sort of childcare setting but even nursery is preferable at thst age to school as there is more unstructured play and more adult supervision. School requires much more in terms of social skills, resilience etc. Which kids,should learn but not by suddenly being dropped in it.

I'm just ranting because I'm tired and upset rather than explaining my points properly. And it's not like I can change the system. I just feel so sad that kids are missing out on being kids. It's not the worst childhood obviously but it's also not as good as it could be.

It's a sausage making machine trying to turn us all into sausages. The trouble is that some people can't become a sausage and suffer. School can't deal with people who are different and batter them into submission. There should alternatives for people who have ASD etc so they can learn at their own pace and on a different way. But that would take money, effort and the desire to change.
My son suffered at school for those reasons. Not being able to afford fees, we were stuck. And his school was rated as outstanding!

@CookiePlough What time do your kids finish school that there's no time to do anything afterwards? Mine are out 3pm and they finish at 12 on a Friday. We're at the park 2-3 times a week (weather permitting) and often have playdates. Kids also do cubs and beavers on a weekday. What stopped this was when I worked longer days and they went to after school club. The school day easily allows time to do things after school.

I absolutely agree that kids start school too young. This is more a problem in England than in Scotland (where I am) though. (Not sure how the system works in the rest of the UK.) Our intake is different so the youngest kids are 4.5 rather than just turned 4 and it's really easy - encouraged even - to defer the younger ones so they start at 5.5. P1 is extremely play based so not a huge jump from nursery really.

The worst things about UK education are the existence of private schools and the fact that you specialise far too early, meaning many British people are woefully deficient in general knowledge. I’ve lost track of the number of times I’ve seen someone get defensive about not ever having heard of a recent historical event and exclaiming’Well, we only did the Tudors and WWII!’

The reason dc do start reading and doing basic maths at 4 or 5 is because it’s a life skill and some actually need to get on with it! Denying my DD1 the chance to read at 4 would not have met her needs. She liked books and was quick to pick it up. Others take longer and play for longer. As far as I can see, YR tries to do this.

Interesting that despite a different system, Wales has the worst educational outcomes in the uk.

I also think the later that school starts the more tit damages children from backgrounds where there isn’t much input from parents. DD would have been fine, she could read fluently before reception, she taught herself to add and already had an active life.

A child where the parents barely communicate with them, who can’t “play” with other children (sharing, negotiating etc) or follow instructions is going to benefit from being in a school environment.

I agree.

Spot on!

We live in Europe....not Finland. My son started school at aged 7 (now 8 ) and goes from 8-13.30. Here after school kids do all kinds of activities. I will say though from 8-13.30 he is sat at a desk and although there are breaks he doesn't get to play outside.
The eldest is now 13 and is doing full day so 8- 14.30...sometimes till 15.30 depending on the day.

I have read books since the age if 4 which I found great! but maths could have waited until I was 7 or 8.

Observing my daughter's school career it occurs to me that a lot of the way they teach maths and English in school is more confusing and unnecessarily superfluous than when I was at school. I also think there's too much teaching-to-test. Daughter was always storing enough information for that day's test or exam. What a waste of time. Why not take a subject and really get into the bones of it? Make it fun for the kids to learn about? Er no, we have an exam next week. 😫 I didn't think she was learning anything, truly. And now she's doing her A levels she's forgotten everything she learnt at GCSE.

There's no learning for pleasure. Discovery. Research. It's all, there's an exam next week.

I agree with a lot of what the OP says (which is why I'm sending my summer born child to reception at 5 instead of 4) but disagree that there's no time for play dates after school - it finishes at 3.30 which leaves loads of time (if they're not in wrap around care of course). Plenty of time for the park too, at least in summer.

Finland is always the example used, I think because they gave their education system such a radical shake-up. There were many facets to that shake up that aren't always taken into account though.
Finnish children have very few tests until 16-18 and the society in pretty homogeneous (meaning nearly everyone has Finnish as their first language).

Another thing, UK schools are too focused on "preparing for work". I never understood this. My daughter is not likely to he stuck behind a desk in her future career, she's goung to be in media centres, photography studios and out on the street. She wears jeans and and oversized shirt. Yet, school says, you need to be in business attire to meet employers. The guy from the newspaper who interviewed my daughter was wearing a check shirt & chinos! When are schools going to get with the fact that people in business do not wear business attire anymore, unless it's to meet Royalty or their Bank Manager?? Her friend wants to be a sports therapist. There she is, in her tracksuit, trainers, hair in a messy bun.... business attire?

What is the purpose of a 4 year old child learning to read and write and do addition and subtraction? How does this help the child either in the present or in the future when they are an adult? I can see that 4 year olds are clearly capable of learning these things and of course being able to read or do simple arithmetic is not a problem. The problem is what are they missing out on in order to learn these skills? In my opinion they are missing out on playing. Unstructured, self determined playing

4 and 5 year olds spend lots of the school day playing! It’s not called ‘playing’ on the curriculum, but that’s exactly what it is: independent play, usually both indoors and outside. The children are given free choice of all the equipment, including bikes, scooters, pretend play items, colouring, jigsaws, games, sand, water play, balls, etc, and can play by themselves or in groups. It’s all free choice.

😔

Reset the economy by restricting mortgage lending to three times a single salary, so that it becomes economically viable for most families not to need two incomes. Free nursery places means tested, only for those families where both parents do need to work. Make it normal for parents to do their own childcare pre-school and wraparound care for school aged kids. Move school age up to five or even six, and encourage schools to be flexible about part-time school in the first couple of years.

Mortgage lenders have been more cautious since the 2008 crash. House prices have continued to go up. Result has been less home ownership and more rental - often at high rental
rates requiring 2 incomes. It’s not led to flattening house prices that only require a single income for a mortgage!

Sweden does not have compulsory pre-school, most children do attend pre-school from 1-5, but it isn’t compulsory. The curriculum from age three is very very similar to what you would find in England. Our son is 9 and learning what he would have been learning in year 6 in the UK.

I do, however, agree that the education system needs a good shake-up. I think the school day starts too early (many schools starting at 8.30am or soon after) and children get tired and run down, thus ill. The Autumn term is particularly stupid - it’s hideously long, there are dark mornings, large amount of illnesses one after the other, and children (and staff) exhausted by the end of it. So, things like maybe having a two week half term in Oct/Nov would help, as children could rest and it would also provide an illness break to halt the spread of all the viruses. Then a 3wk Christmas break would set them up for the Spring Term.

Education-wise, the trouble is that the curriculum is so prescriptive now and everything is so rushed (because of all the different things you have to get through) that there’s no time to embed learning or for the children to explore subjects. They might as well have robots gabbling through the work, not teachers. Teachers have no space or time to inspire or support children. Constant interference by successive governments and ridiculous micro-managing by academy trusts has killed teaching.

Finland is officially bilingual with the national languages Finnish and Swedish.
5.39% of the population declare their mother tongue to be Swedish.
Swedish classes is mandatory language in primary/secondary school. Pupils have the languages Finnish, Swedish and English.

I’m sure you’re right, it’s a while since I read the article. Still a very high percentage with Finnish as first language.
The whole pattern and structure of the education system there is interesting, giving teachers much more autonomy and less test based teaching.

I grew up in the Canadian school system and taught in the UK system.

In my opinion, there is far too much rigidity and focus on "scaffolding" in UK primary schools. It limits creativity and doesn't support any kind of individual thought. The huge push on grammar (fronted adverbials, really?) and ever-changing maths strategies are confusing for children who don't naturally thrive in academics.

As for secondary schools, the amount of testing and pressure put on teenagers is insane. Learning doesn't come from exams or memorizing facts. Schools are producing young adults who can't apply their knowledge to real-life situations and need explicit instructions to complete trivial tasks.

I am moving my family to Canada, and am very glad that my children will be educated in Canadian schools.

That said, I do not place any blame on teachers. They have not designed the curriculum and have no say in which methods they are allowed to use in order to teach. The system is broken by a useless government (not to mention Ofsted, which is an utter farce).

@CookiePlough , I’m a little bit shocked that more people than not have disagreed with you particularly since all of the scientific evidence points to the fact you are correct. We live in a society where family life is broken and women are made to feel that a traditional role as homemakers is not something to aspire to.
Back in the day one person in a family with an ordinary job could pay the rent or mortgage now in most families both parents have to work to keep bread on the table. Therefore the childcare aspect of school becomes a necessity. I suspect that a lot of those who said you were unreasonable have to believe that because they have no choice, how very sad.
Governments of all colours are dependent upon taxation and instead of cherishing the family and its unarguable benefit to children and therefore society as a whole have encouraged every person to be ‘economically active’ the result has been that with more money to spend the price of housing and rents has risen in real terms to eat up the additional income. We were sold a lie and now it’s no longer a choice for most people for both parents to work.
Of course I believe that women who want to should be able to pursue careers but it doesn’t have to be mum who stays home with the children. This option is only available now to the highest earners and our children suffer as a consequence.
We did always send children to school at a very young age but you would have thought that the passing of many decades and the evidence from Scandinavia would have caused successive governments to reconsider the consequences of this policy, they haven’t because they are addicted to our taxation.
My grandsons are home schooled, their parents are fortunate to be able to live on my elder son’s salary. Lessons which are fun and my grandson really enjoys are in the morning followed by free time to play or trips out to discover. Socialising is abundant with other children who are home schooled with the advantage that children interact with different ages. I’m very supportive of my son and daughter in law’s decision. My younger son has two girls the eldest is in year two, they’d like to home school but despite both earning well cannot afford to, they often don’t have their heating on and I do worry over them but they have that astronomical mortgage to pay.
🤷🏼‍♀️😢

In Wales, our children learn through play throughout Foundation Phase (key stage one). Small group work for maths, language and topic takes place and more whole class work comes in as they go through foundation phase mixed in with the play. The play is called continuous provision which is always available. The focus is on skills and not knowledge. I much prefer this method of teaching and learning but Wales always under performs compared to England in the PISA chart so they might do away with it one day which would be a shame.

my nephew left his school in wales to go to a school across the border in year 1 and had the shock of his life. He is a bright little thing but he could not cope with the all day formal learning and sitting still at age 5. The volume of homework was also a shock. It’s taken him until year 3 to adapt.

Yes, but it is not unique worldwide.

The difference is discipline. The Finnish school is very disciplined. A lot of UK kids would fail the Finnish school.

School is right, sorry.
DH is a freelancer and works from home, he spends most of his working day in jeans that are held together more by prayers than fabric, but he still puts a suit on to meet clients, because it's a non-verbal signal that you take the other person, and the job they might give you, seriously.
For women in business the situation is even more complex - how you dress and do your hair & makeup has so many connotations re. class and, by bias, education. You need to be aware of how you're presenting yourself. Always be smart, but not over-done, to the interview, then dress to the vibe once you've got the job.