To think the British educational system is all wrong?

[CookiePlough]

It seems like the aim is to make adults out of children as soon as possible rather than allowing them enough time to just be kids.

My main issues are that 1. kids start school way too early and 2. spend way too much time in school.

What is the purpose of a 4 year old child learning to read and write and do addition and subtraction? How does this help the child either in the present or in the future when they are an adult? I can see that 4 year olds are clearly capable of learning these things and of course being able to read or do simple arithmetic is not a problem. The problem is what are they missing out on in order to learn these skills? In my opinion they are missing out on playing. Unstructured, self determined playing. You can learn academics at a later age but you can't really make up for not getting enough playtime as a child. However, this wouldn't be a problem if the school day wasn't so ridiculously long. There just isn't enough time to play after school. There is no time to go anywhere after school (eg the park), for playdates, for any play that takes longer than an hour, to do extra curricular activities (without missing out on Unstructured play time) or anything else. Everything has to be done on the weekend but then when do you have time to do things as a family?

I understand most kids have 2 parents working full time so kids need to be in some sort of childcare setting but even nursery is preferable at thst age to school as there is more unstructured play and more adult supervision. School requires much more in terms of social skills, resilience etc. Which kids,should learn but not by suddenly being dropped in it.

I'm just ranting because I'm tired and upset rather than explaining my points properly. And it's not like I can change the system. I just feel so sad that kids are missing out on being kids. It's not the worst childhood obviously but it's also not as good as it could be.

I disagree. If your child has been to Nursery they don't have too much trouble with the transition. Reception is mostly teaching through play. Plenty of time after school to go to the park, get home, have unstructured play time until bed time. Why shouldn't you do any extra activities at the weekend? I think it's better to do them then. My children and grandchildren loved reading so I think it's a good thing to learn it early. I don't think children miss out on being children at all by being in school, the majority of them enjoy school and love learning.

However, this wouldn't be a problem if the school day wasn't so ridiculously long. There just isn't enough time to play after school. There is no time to go anywhere after school (eg the park), for playdates, for any play that takes longer than an hour, to do extra curricular activities (without missing out on Unstructured play time) or anything else.

Just how long do you think the school day is? When DD was at primary school she finished at 3.30 which left plenty of time to play with friends, go to the park etc.

At secondary school she started earlier (8.20) and finished at 2.50 leaving plenty of time to do homework and see friends.

I’m not sure access to tach is really a problem unless there’s no access to books.

20 years ago it was common for students to work as well! It was the height of the idea that everyone should be aiming for university. There were no grants and student loans were not enough to live off.

Housing was relatively cheaper I believe - one of the issues I see currently with university is that the cost of housing has skyrocketed in part because all new housing being build is 'fancy' (for example the new builds are generally ensuite rather than shared bathrooms - ensuites were fairly rare 20 years ago). There are limited options for students who are happy to sacrifice comfort to have something cheaper and from what I can see demand outweighs supply.

When I was doing my teacher training back in the late 1980s we had a retired former HMI as our tutor, this was because of a staffing issue. He was an emeritus professor so he could remember schools before world war 2. We loved getting him to tell us stories of the old days.
He told us all sorts of things that have stayed with me. One was that schools are a reflection of the society they are in. They don't create values and standards they are formed by those that exist already.
And English schools, I have no experience of Scottish ones, have mostly been formed by the theories and opinions of the Tories who have held power in the UK for so much of my adult life. And obviously schools aren't great for everyone just like life isn't. But you would be surprised I think by how happy secondary schools are mostly.

My DC loved school because they were with their friends all day. However, they are NT and were very very ready for pre school and then each academic step up thereafter.

I agree with a PP re: school day - it’s not that long at all and most Reception children by the summer term would cope well with a longer day. I know independent schools have longer days and compensate with longer school holidays.

Sweden doesn't have compulsory school from 3 yo. Sweden doesn't offer free kindergarden. The fee is based on the average income your household has per month."Förskoleklass" is mandatory and free in Sweden. It is 0th grade/6 yo and the start of school.

Play in the early years develops necessary brain architecture. Many reception classes formally teach children which cuts into this precious time. Formal learning is damaging at this age. Play IS the learning at this age but feels counter intuitive to many parents (and sadly to some teachers) because of the term itself (‘play’ seen as the opposite to ‘learning’) and because the effects of this super important ground work cannot always easily be seen or measured (highly problematic to the system).
Glad to see others talk about the impact on creative thinking too. No good having scientists with bits of paper to say they know physics or chem really well if they lack ability to think creatively. That’s the skill you can’t teach and you won’t be a good scientist if you can’t apply in novel situations. Play needs to be much, much more highly valued and I agree that the approach to education in this country is deeply flawed and needs a rehaul.

So with an average UK salary of 35k that means family homes with a max mortgage of 100k

So only those with rich families who can stump up a 250k deposit can buy?

I completely agree that 4 is a ridiculous age to start formal education. A fellow reception parent confided in me she was worried about her child's writing and was making him write pages of lines every night on advice of the teacher...at FOUR. What's the point?? It reminds me of the past trend to potty train much too early, making it a difficult and drawn-out process, when we now wait until they're ready and it's much easier for everyone.

I really think we did a lot of damage by trying to expand university attendance in the way we did. We should have introduced a master tradesman route like Germany instead. Nursing didn’t used tor require a degree did it?

I grew up in Eastern Europe where we start school at 6 but the standards and expectations are much higher. Everything is graded, there is a lot of homework and if you don't pass, you repeat the year. Switching to a British secondary school was quite surprising because it felt pretty easy in comparison...

Thank you! I don't recognise mist of what is described on this thread - I suppose Wales gets it right. Up until year 2 /3 my son has done most of his learning through play.

I will say that year 3 comes as a bit of a shock as a result, but the children seem very happy so....

No these were elite universities, the view seems to be it’s the increasing use of tech and drop in attention span and poor reading skills overall.

I can't believe there are all these level headed sensible comments understanding why our education system is antiqued and outdated yet there's a vile thread about making home education illegal which is full of silly comments on the same forum. Madness.

I think over all children are institutionalised with little room anywhere in their lives to simply Potter around and think and do what they want.
To be able to think and let their minds wander is crucial but with very early nursery and busy busy lives and now tech there is little room for that.

That's ridiculous of the teacher to push that in reception. They should leave reception as confident readers, writing can come later.
Ours focus on letter formation, and are encouraged to write only a few lines in year 1 - quality over quantity both for reading and writing.

There is a thread on here on the number of children starting school not potty trained because parents are starting too late!

Most of the EYFS from pre-school to year R is play-based, as we know most children learn through play. Personally pre-school has been great for my autistic toddler over and above nursery as he is more drawn to letter play, numbers and that is his version of play. He also likes riding bikes and playing with vehicular toys, so actually pre-school is the more ideal environment for him. What will work for some children won’t for others. It all goes tits up from around year 3 when it gets to tick-boxy and children are put under pressure to meet academic milestones, and there isn’t enough focus on holistic learning styles. Secondary school in this country is generally a shit show and still functions under the Victorian system of churning out worker bees. Some children thrive, but the problem is that those who need a different approach are left to fall through the cracks. There’s also obviously not enough good quality SEN provision or intervention services.

My dd was able to read, write and do multiplication and division starting school at 5. She hated the chaotic nature of the learning through lay environment and only really settled once the classroom was in rows (year 3). You do realise we are all different! I remember hating preschool because kids ran around and didn't sit still for the alphabet lessons.

The solution is a choice but I'd choose more academic not less

Exactly, there are children who are spectacularly able who with the right environment can really excel and find something they love to do. My DH (again 2nd gen working class immigrant) bloody LOVED maths, he was lucky he had some great teachers that continued to stretch and encourage him. He is very clever but his outcomes may have been different if someone was more worried about him having fun, doing maths IS fun for him. He actively enjoyed his science lessons (we watch documentaries on maths and space when it’s his turn to choose). He enjoyed learning new things. He also played cricket, football and rugby and was on school teams etc. It doesn’t have to be one or the other.

The dumbing down and stripping out of things considered too “high brow” hurts those of us from less advantaged backgrounds more than it does the established middle classes.

And don't cite Finland as an example, our Finnish friends think their system is so slow and the kids are behind, in addition they stay in school later

This!! Early years stuff is great its the later years where the kids are sat for long periods of time.

Didnt they change the curriculum about 10 years ago where the expecations at each year level was much higher?

The UK is quite low down on the international School tests (PISA) ranking, so clearly not doing that well. It seems that maths attainment has moved up the table so one positive at least.

Absolutely, there should be more choice, but unfortunately usually have to pay for private to get that, which is now even harder.
Every child is different, smaller class sizes would help massively as could be more individualised.
My girls are lucky that their classes are about 20, with teacher and 2 TA's, so lots of small group really focused learning in groups of 5, with the 4th group doing some free play in the break out area, and then they rotate. Short bursts of really focused tailored activity as groups are broadly ability based from year 1 upwards, and as it's so efficient, they still get loads of time for forest school, art, music, cooking etc. Every child learns to ride a bike in year 1, to swim in year 2.

That in my mind is the answer, make learning more effective and efficient to allow time for more play and functional skill development.

I think this is some of the issue. You have kids that need different things to learn. So many schools are run like businesses now, it’s all about getting as much as you can for as little as possible.
If you have 31 kids in a class, trying to teach them all exactly the same thing in the same way, no additional help and a rigid curriculum then it doesn’t equal a good education.