To think the British educational system is all wrong?

[CookiePlough]

It seems like the aim is to make adults out of children as soon as possible rather than allowing them enough time to just be kids.

My main issues are that 1. kids start school way too early and 2. spend way too much time in school.

What is the purpose of a 4 year old child learning to read and write and do addition and subtraction? How does this help the child either in the present or in the future when they are an adult? I can see that 4 year olds are clearly capable of learning these things and of course being able to read or do simple arithmetic is not a problem. The problem is what are they missing out on in order to learn these skills? In my opinion they are missing out on playing. Unstructured, self determined playing. You can learn academics at a later age but you can't really make up for not getting enough playtime as a child. However, this wouldn't be a problem if the school day wasn't so ridiculously long. There just isn't enough time to play after school. There is no time to go anywhere after school (eg the park), for playdates, for any play that takes longer than an hour, to do extra curricular activities (without missing out on Unstructured play time) or anything else. Everything has to be done on the weekend but then when do you have time to do things as a family?

I understand most kids have 2 parents working full time so kids need to be in some sort of childcare setting but even nursery is preferable at thst age to school as there is more unstructured play and more adult supervision. School requires much more in terms of social skills, resilience etc. Which kids,should learn but not by suddenly being dropped in it.

I'm just ranting because I'm tired and upset rather than explaining my points properly. And it's not like I can change the system. I just feel so sad that kids are missing out on being kids. It's not the worst childhood obviously but it's also not as good as it could be.

And which working parent do you think will be happy to throw up their career?

I read an article in the Atlantic about how universities are increasingly having to cut down on course reading because students simply can’t cope. Reading skills are so poor that what would have been a reasonable workload 20 years ago just can’t be done with students because they don’t have the reading ability or attention span. I’m not sure this is a good thing.

DD moved schools summer term of Yr5. She was no where near getting her "license".

She was given a pen in her new school, because they presumed she had achieved that fictional level... and her handwriting improved massively as she didn't need to press as hard.

And getting the pressure off actually meant she discovered the other issue... shes ambidextrous and needs to do different types of writing with different hands.

I agree with you mostly, however teaching children to read and write young opens up a whole world for them to explore and interact with and learn from whilst they play.

Imo the issue is the full time at school when most of it is wasted time due to large groups/inefficienc/general time wasting. If you do home ed you can cover the curriculum in a fraction of the time as you are 1 on 1 with the child.
Schools are mainly there as state childcare imo. Not planned for the benefit of the child.

Yep you are right. We end up with disillusioned children at secondary school because they are so fed up of the exam factory conditions and rote learning. We are maintaining a Victorian model in the 21st Century.

I actually think the switch to phonics and the way we do maths now is much better than when I was at school. I don’t even remember doing a reading program. I could read fluently before school but I’m not sure anyone checked my comprehension. There was also very little on grammar, syntax, I started secondary not sure how to put things into paragraphs. I’m still not sure! These things are not a problems unless you don’t know them, then they rapidly become a problem when you actually have to write stuff down.

Universities need to cut down on reading demands as the proportion of students entering universities increases and there is more of an expectation of a 2:1 or first when you pay fees. For example I know of a nurse who had a level 3 GCSE in English and is now on track for a first class degree. The use of English isn't necessarily penalised in marking course work.

HE has problems because we now really can't define HE or are more and more expecting everyone to have some kind of degree. If everyone has a 2:1 or first what benefit does it give anyone?

I think, tbf, my DD has particularly exam-loving teachers and perhaps it's not so normal to have that many exams, as it's up to each teacher how they assess students so they could even have no exams at all (but that seems unlikely as they're such a useful assessment tool) but quite possibly many teachers use exams less than the ones in her school.
I have wondered how the children cope but according to DD they don't all bother to study so perhaps for them it's less intense, but DD puts the intensity on herself as she wants good grades.

They probably don't have time because most university students have to work to support themselves during their studies. This was less of an issue in the past when COL was lower and students were mostly from affluent families who could support them.

Most schools have an incredibly play focused system in the early years, with lots and lots of play.

The school day is only 6 hours long, and there are 13 weeks holiday.

If anything there is significantly more learning that could happen in the early years

It's really not good. It's dumbing down.

And one of the problem is it's impacting capable children without a lot of family support (whether because their family actually aren't supportive or are but don't have the education themselves to support (or the money to buy in support)). I live in a wealthy area where a lot of parents have a very strong focus on education. The amount of tutoring is insane - it's just completely standard. And with enough time/money and family focus you absolutely can push a student from a 5 to an 8/9 at GCSE (or from a B/C to an A/A* at A-level) by teaching to the test. That's great for those kids (and I could never say a parent shouldn't - I will myself if I think needed!) but how does a university then distinguish, and how does a student without the support not get disheartened when they're not getting a string of 8s and 9s.

The worst one I've seen so far is someone looking for a tutor for their child to support with their university course!

I agree, I have two kids in primary and it's largely play focused with some reading and numbers. Our kids like to read for pleasure, as everyone should - so this is a positive in my view.
I do wish the secondary curriculum was different and taught other essential life skills like investing, how to get a mortgage, different bank accounts etc, to encourage sound financial decisions. But wouldn't change the approach our primary school take.

Primarily the latter

Im a ks2 teacher and in the last few years I've felt that school is basically a factory. The product comes in at 8.40 and is then crammed full of arithmetic, then SPAG then handwriting. That's just before I do the register at 9. It's relentless. The curriculum is not fit for purpose. We expect children to learn things that most adults don't know and have never needed to know.
Unfortunately I don't see it changing any time soon but please know that teachers share these frustrations with you!

Kids should not stay at home til six or seven, as for some kids, home is not a great learning environment. It's a nice idea that they would all be doing bit of maths while baking with grandma, or making dens in the forest, but in reality many would be plonked in front of the TV and socially isolated as not allowed to play out unsupervised.

That's why some countries (I think Sweden and France are two) have compulsory nursery school from 3 years old. It's to free the children from the circumstances of their home.

Fair enough - I would be interested to hear whether there is a degree or more intense learning in other countries and how they cater to different needs of children.
Your DD seems to thrive in this environment, which is great, and it sounds like the drive to do well comes from her rather than the teacher, given that some children do not study for the tests.

Completely agree with this, both my girls reception years were fantastic, mainly free u structured play with a few short bursts of more focused learning on small groups . And within that they grew and learnt so much, without being pushed, it was learning through play. I can really see the value in it, after seeing the difference between my oldest (year 4) and youngest (year 1) understanding around phonics. Oldest missed around half of her reception year due to covid, and at 9 her comprehension of word structure is much more limited than my 5 year old, she struggles in her spelling due to this.

But the rush to formal learning in year 1 felt to quick, should have been more gradual. Fortunately my daughters school is very much about the 'whole child' and they focus on emotional development as much as academic.

I also think that the complexities of English spelling mean children need to start learning to read and write sooner than if the language of instruction is e.g. Spanish or Finnish, where the sound and spelling rules are much more consistent and regular.

That would just restrict who is able to buy a home. Only people with family money would buy all of the houses and working people would have to rent.
Not everyone gets a mortgage.

Exactly, would need to have a huge deposit which generally means inheritance/family money. This would reduce social mobility.

I do think the system is difficult for the children whose strengths lie outside the testable reading writing and mathematics areas. Often boys.
So many children who have physical and interpersonal skills and passions that aren’t valued at school. The non academic ones at private schools will often have these attributes developed and go on to do well in the arts, acting etc.
When I see yet another Eton or Roedean actor or musician or artist or sportsperson I think about the amazing children who never got to try whatever the role is.

Our LEA is similar re SEN school provisions. If you can't cope in mainstream, but are academically able, there's no suitable peer group / academic offering in any of the special schools.

It is not compulsory to start at 4, can chose to start term after turn 5. They can not attend or attend part time up until then.

If people dont agree with the British school system, they are free to home school or use an alternative school model, like Steiner, which is more flexible.

One thing out educational system suffered from is that the middle classes will effectively work out what a child needs to do to come out with grades to ensure their children have the best possible career choices. Education becomes less about a love of Sbakepeare, an appreciation of the elegance of mathetmtarics, an awe of the universal applicability of science but a rock box exercise for those parents determined that those children have the best opportunities (which is the most natural human instinct).

I think the amount of discretion teachers have in the Finnish system is an interesting one. It works well if the teacher is a strong teacher but it can lead to very bad educational experiences for kids if the teacher is weak. I don't have experience of the Finnish system (and I understand teachers there are highly educated/trained and well paid) but it's something that was a concern to me in the IB PYP and one of the reasons I moved my kids out of that system. IB PYP is fantastic if you have a strong teacher (and preferable to English to me) who thrives not being overly restricted in what they have to teach, but the risk is that with a poor teacher (or poor school) it is far far worse than the English curriculum. I had one year where DS thrived because his teacher was fantastic and one year where he stagnated because the teacher was very rigid (and frankly was struggling with health problems herself and overwhelmed).