Son has just told us he is non binary

[Chipshopninja]

13 years old

Wants us to use they/them

He came out as Bi a a couple of years ago and I was fine with that but this has really hit me hard

I'm terrified that this is going to lead to hormones and surgery.

Don't know why I'm posting tbh but feeling crappy because I didn't handle it well. I cried.

I can't call him my son anymore

He's my only child

Has anyone else been through this?

👏
In a relatively short space of time trans activist lobbyists have succeeded in rolling back feminism (before women achieved equality); dismantling safeguarding principles (despite the prevalence of child abuse); and disintegrating socialism (women are no longer a class).

I very much appreciate when posters articulate things so succinctly.

@Lostcat you must agree that there are scripts and videos online which coach our young people in what to say to parents and clinics. This is not a case of live and let live. This is intentional harm to vulnerable young people and the reason I feel so strongly to post on this thread where @Chipshopninja shared her terror at the thoughts of hormones and surgery. Please try to see it from the perspective of parents with vulnerable young people for whom it can go so badly wrong leaving them and their families with a lifetime of avoidable suffering

what rights do the rest of us have that trans people don't?

The right to have their gender identity recognised and respected.

The right to respect for their privacy and family life.
The right to preservation of human dignity
The right not to be subject to arbitrary discrimination.

I could go on.

Do you really not know any non fundamentalist trans people? It is quite possible to hold a particular belief system without forcing those around you to hold it too.

I'm atheist but have friends who are Christian, Muslim and Jewish. None refer to me as a heretic or infidel. They don't stop me having sex out of wedlock, drinking alcohol, hoovering on a Friday etc.

Perhaps I'm older than you. I've been aware of transexualism since my very misspent youth in the 90s / 00s. The current, fundamentalist , iteration of trans ideology wasn't a widespread thing back then. The transexuals (that's what they called themselves) I met and knew then were male homosexual men. They didn't actually believe they were women and didn't force other people to pretend they were either. What they called themselves, how they dressed, what they did to their adult bodies was no business of mine.

I know that fundamentalist trans ideology has been heavily pushed by the media and trans activists (often not themselves trans) but it would be logical to assume plenty of moderate trans people without authoritarian tendencies exist, who'd be horrified at the thought of violating other people's boundaries.

In what way do trans people not already have those rights, in the same way every other human does?

What you're actually saying is that because a trans person believes themselves to be the opposite sex, the rest of us should be forced to recognise them as such and believe it also. Which is absolutely farcical.

No other belief system requires this of society at large. Christians don't demand the rest of us change our language to demonstrate we hold the same beliefs as they do.

Trans people are covered under the protected characteristic of gender reassignment in law. They are protected, legally, from discrimination in the workplace, when accessing services both publicly and privately, from harassment/abuse or assault in law as are the rest of us.

So I ask you again, what specific rights do the rest of us in society hold that trans people don't or aren't covered by existing law and the equality act?

right to access appropriate healthcare!!!

Do you really not know any non fundamentalist trans people?

How does a trans avoid being a "fundamentalist" according to you?

It is quite possible to hold a particular belief system without forcing those around you to hold it too.

Being trans is not a belief system. No trans person is trying to force anyone to hold any "belief system", they are just asking to be allowed to live their life as a trans person with the same privacy, dignity and respect that is afforded to everyone else.

Well that last bit is nonsense isn’t it, what with preferred pronouns, expecting to use spaces/facilities for the opposite sex

@Lostcat what other area of medicine does someone get to dictate that they receive medication or surgery to uphold a belief system?

Trans people, as I understand it, are able to access cross sex hormones and surgeries as adults. The waiting lists for these surgeries are no more extreme than for many other areas of healthcare under the current NHS system. Trans people, as all others, have the right to choose to pay privately should they have the means just like anyone else waiting on surgery/investigations.
But be clear... those procedures are not "healthcare" they're cosmetic. Because even the surgeons undertaking the work know that those surgeries do not change a persons sex.

Essentially, the only area of "trans healthcare" that is now restricted is children accessing puberty blockers. And with good reason. Those children will still receive "trans healthcare" - in the form of psychotherapeutic support and proper investigation of any co morbid diagnoses, they simply won't routinely be handed puberty blockers as there is absolutely no robust evidence for their safety or efficacy in this demographic.

The right to have their gender identity recognised and respected. - So you are saying that if a trans person wants to be treated as a member of the opposite sex, I have to pretend to do that? Cant you see how that impinges on my rights?

The right to respect for their privacy and family life. How do they not have that already?

The right to preservation of human dignity What does this actually mean?

The right not to be subject to arbitrary discrimination. They already have this, at least in the UK. Gender reassignment is a protected characteristic, I believe.

And of course trans people can access healthcare! We all have a right to access healthcare which is safe and proven to be effective. That does not mean that they have an automatic right to have whatever "treatments" they deem to be desirable. NOBODY has that "right".

Why is your first point a right?

Anymore than having a person's star sign or myers briggs profile or something respected? What does 'respected' mean in this case? Respected how?

As for you other points, how are their rights here any different to anyone else's?

All of this. And then some.

@teentantrums apparently the only way to preserve a trans persons dignity is for everyone to unequivocally agree with them about their chosen "gender". Anything else is abuse and discrimination seemingly.

I think the protected nature of trans is part of the appeal for neurodivergent teens. They already feel disconnected from their bodies and struggle socially so they may as well belong to a welcoming group with legal protection. I’m sure I have over simplified this but I hope it gets across my point.

In work a couple of years ago we were told by HR to add our pronouns under our job title (for emails) such as" Dandelionsarefree, Job Title, She/Her"

I was horrified. And even more horrified when I saw 90 per cent of people complying. My line manager (who complies with this) sent me reminders to do so, until I told her I find that frankly ridiculous therefore I choose not to do it and she looked quite puzzled.
I don't need to add She/Her as I am a woman, look like one, and have a female name. That's enough.

I do think the world has gone bonkers with this stuff- for the record I work for a very conservative organisation which is now embracing all this madness.

You are absolutely spot on. There's a reason there's a high correlation between trans and teenagers who are chronically online, particularly autistic teens. It's not because it's given them access and opportunity to discover other like minded trans people, it's because the fact that they spend so much time sedentary and in front of screens is actually inhibiting them from embodying their own body in any meaningful way. They aren't feeling its strengths, limits, the full range of the sensation of their bodies. Add to that the already known detrimental effect of too much online access and it's little wonder these young people are dissociating from their own bodies and feel a disconnect. And when they go searching online for answers as to why they feel this way hey presto, site after site and forum after forum telling them it's because they're in the "wrong" body and the only way to fix this is drugs and surgery...

Apologies for going a bit off topic. Just wanted to make the point that it seems that we need to clarify our sex going forward. (!?)

I think the protected nature of trans is part of the appeal for neurodivergent teens. They already feel disconnected from their bodies and struggle socially so they may as well belong to a welcoming group with legal protection. I’m sure I have over simplified this but I hope it gets across my point.

Yes, I can see that this could be part of it.

This is so true, but the online world of gaming is also a lifesaver for an autistic teen who is clinically depressed and cut off from the world because of burnout, for example. It’s not as easy as restricting their online access. It’s a vicious circle and the reason the number of trans identifying teens has dramatically increased in the last ten years or so.

This thread is filling up quickly, so I just want to say to any parents reading that the most important thing I have learned is to build trust with your child. It’s natural for them to seek to distance themselves from you as they become more independent and go off to university but they’re still adolescents navigating a difficult world with online influences that we never had to contend with. They need to trust that you have their best interests at heart and hopefully that trust will keep them safe until they fully mature in their mid 20’s.

@Kalalily it's only a lifesaver if parents are adequately moderating what their teens do online, who they're engaging with and what sites they visit.

If those safeguards aren't put in place then it's likely to cause more harm than good.

We wouldnt send our 11 or 12 year olds into pubs, adult house parties, adult shops, strip clubs etc. to talk to strangers yet when they're given unsupervised online access this is essentially what we're doing, if not worse. We're sending them out into a virtual world where they will encounter all kinds of unsavoury people and adult content. It's shocking to me how many people have no kinds of parental controls on their WiFi or devices.

@BodyKeepingScore i totally agree with you. And to their credit schools do their bit in warning us of the dangers.

Remember the Les Dennis Pantomime poster with his pronouns?

I amused myself by putting Goddess/Siren as my pronouns recently. The only way to do away with this arrant nonsense is to ridicule it mercilessly.

I did read of a woman who decided to challenge her earnestly woke HR department by notifying them, on a daily basis, what her preferred pro nouns were for that day. I think it took about 6 weeks for her to finally break them and they requested she please, please stop emailing them. They never dared ask what her preferred pro nouns were again.

A salutary lesson, methinks.

Did they not respect her gender fluidity? Tut.