Page 35 | Son has just told us he is non binary

Chipshopninja · 2025-01-02T19:31:27+00:00

13 years old Wants us to use they/them He came out as Bi a a couple of years ago and I was fine with that but this has really hit me hard I'm terrified that this is going to lead to hormones and surgery. Don't know why I'm posting tbh but feeling crappy because I didn't handle it well. I cried. I can't call him my son anymore He's my only child Has anyone else been through this?

Cailin66 · 06/01/2025 18:57

justteanbiscuits · 06/01/2025 16:37

I do find it strange that on Mumsnet EVERYONE knows someone / knows someone who knows someone who has a child identifying as a cat at their school.

I'm in London, and amongst kids I've discussed it with, so covering many schools, in some very woke areas, no one actually knows anyone who comes to school identifying as a cat, but everyone has been told about someone at some other school who does.

I know of two, one is a school in the West of Ireland that two nieces and one nephew attend, we had a full discussion about it, their own parents didn’t even know about it, but they knew about trans, my BIL calls trans people “the they dems”. One of their daughters one day decided they were a boy and my sister nipped that in the bud. With calmness, education and logic. In that school it’s a girl identifying as a cat, my nephew with his friends go woof woof at her any time she is near them. And my niece is mad at him for doing so. There’s also a bunch of girls non binary or whatever, they insist on using the boys bathrooms. BUT they only do it in packs.

The other case is in South Africa, where a girl identifies as a wolf.

I asked my children’s school about grabs, the disabled toilet is used, and they just use the name of the child to avoid pronouns. In that school there were no animals, but I know directly of two girls claiming to be male, I met one of them. She’s clearly a deluded lesbian aged about 21 now. But everyone goes along with it, I won’t be rude but there is no way on earth she’s male.

BreatheAndFocus · 06/01/2025 19:00

BreatheAndFocus · 06/01/2025 18:55

Exactly! And, thinking more on my response earlier, I find comments like this (no make up, messy bun or whatever) quite regressive. So you can’t be a woman if you don’t wear make up? That’s what that commenter was implying.

There’s no one way to be a woman. We can look like we want and we can do what we want. Being a woman isn’t dependent on how feminine someone is.

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Quoting my own post here because it wouldn’t let me edit it and I wanted to add this quote (my italics)
**
"Female is real, and it's sex, and femininity is unreal, and it's gender.
**
For that to become the given identity of women is a profoundly disabling notion."
**
— Germaine Greer

Princessfluffy · 06/01/2025 20:42

I'm happy for myself, DH, my DC and anyone else I know to pursue relationships whether sexual or not as they wish and with whoever they wish. Happy for anyone to change/mix up their preferences whenever they like.

Just because I have chosen to be in a faithful and monogamous relationship with a man for 30 years, this doesn't define me or limit me for the future. I understand the idea of not wanting to be labelled or pigeon holed and I agree with it.

Out of respect, I would call anyone by the name they preferred. I'm not persuaded generally by the pronoun stuff. I think I'd still say "my son" because what's the alternative here?

As things stand is there really any issue here at the moment?

If surgery or hormones do come into the arena in the future I think it becomes a lot more complicated but that's not the case here is it?

Basically I'd be saying to my son that I am just the same as he is, and as in fact most people are. I don't call myself heterosexual even though I've had 40 years of purely heterosexual relationships - as who knows who I may be attracted to tomorrow.

There is no need for any of us to label ourselves or to put ourselves into boxes.

Thoughtsonallsorts · 06/01/2025 21:39

Cailin66 · 06/01/2025 18:57

I know of two, one is a school in the West of Ireland that two nieces and one nephew attend, we had a full discussion about it, their own parents didn’t even know about it, but they knew about trans, my BIL calls trans people “the they dems”. One of their daughters one day decided they were a boy and my sister nipped that in the bud. With calmness, education and logic. In that school it’s a girl identifying as a cat, my nephew with his friends go woof woof at her any time she is near them. And my niece is mad at him for doing so. There’s also a bunch of girls non binary or whatever, they insist on using the boys bathrooms. BUT they only do it in packs.

The other case is in South Africa, where a girl identifies as a wolf.

I asked my children’s school about grabs, the disabled toilet is used, and they just use the name of the child to avoid pronouns. In that school there were no animals, but I know directly of two girls claiming to be male, I met one of them. She’s clearly a deluded lesbian aged about 21 now. But everyone goes along with it, I won’t be rude but there is no way on earth she’s male.

Edited

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I'm leaving this thread now & I guarantee a lot of people will be relieved. There is a word that I would rarely use in a serious thread. Sadly I can't help it. Most of it unless it's supporting OP by guiding 'him' at such a young age is absolute P...h
Make of it as you will.

katepilar · 06/01/2025 22:30

Tillow4ever · 03/01/2025 20:23

Not read past page 1 as about to have dinner…. This just made me stop and pause!

I myself, an adult woman of 40+ years, have wondered if I might be non-binary. I don’t feel like a woman, although sometimes I WANT to try to be “girly”. I don’t feel like a man either. I don’t particularly want to be a man. Nor conform to stereotypes. What does it even feel like to know you are male or female? You see where I’m going? If I, after multiple children and growing up as female don’t fully know who or what I am, how the hell is a teenager going through puberty and hormonal hell supposed to know?!

being non binary doesn’t mean anything is being chopped off, or added, as far as I’m aware. I think maybe what they are trying to tell you is they don’t feel they fit the stereotype of a boy or a girl. And that’s fine! One day I’m sure they will find their place. For now, why not be supportive and try your best not to use gender specific pronouns. This may be a phase they outgrow in 6 months and cringe about, or this could actually be them and their future - how you react is going to stay with them either way. Do you want them to remember you being a supportive parent that they can come and talk to about anything? Or do you want them to remember you shutting them down and deciding not to gone to you the next time there’s something big in their life, through fear you won’t support them?

I’m sure it won’t be easy to navigate, but if all they want is non-binary pronouns, is that really worth an argument/fallout over?

I wonder if you can put a finger on why you dont particarly feel like a woman?

I am not what a lot of people would probably call a typical woman, I am not interested in fashion, shoes, high heels, make-up, hairdressers, handbags, sexy dresses, beauty products, magazines, etc. yet I do feel like a woman.

pollymere · 06/01/2025 23:01

Kalalily · 06/01/2025 13:42

Are you a teacher or fellow student that you hear teens speak of their desperation and depression?
What is Cons?
if you are a teacher, how do you support these distressed teens?
At the back of every affected parent’s mind is the thought that their child could be the one who is irreversibly damaged by medical transitioning. That really helps focus our minds and ensures that we take a thoughtful, questioning approach rather than going straight to affirmation.

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We're talking about people being non-binary and you've gone straight to medical transitions?!

Unless you've got a whole lot of money it takes years and years to transition and you have a huge number of psych hoops to get through first.

Teacher and parent. Cons are Conventions usually for anime or video games.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 06/01/2025 23:28

pollymere · 06/01/2025 23:01

We're talking about people being non-binary and you've gone straight to medical transitions?!

Unless you've got a whole lot of money it takes years and years to transition and you have a huge number of psych hoops to get through first.

Teacher and parent. Cons are Conventions usually for anime or video games.

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Hmm. A teacher who on this thread has accused the OP of "bringing her child misery" for being cautious about pronouns. How very worrying.

Maybe you should educate yourself about the vast number of teenage girls / young women who have crowd funders to raise money for double mastectomies? There are lots of them. Many because the trusted adults around them (some in schools) have completely failed in their safeguarding responsibilities by being transactivists instead of responsible adults with professional responsibilities.

Do you feel empowered to throw accusations at parents as you have done to the OP?

Enough4me · 06/01/2025 23:32

Sex is not a feeling. All women feel like women can feel and everyone else is a man who also has feelings whilst remaining a man.

Because women are women and men are men, and the Earth is not flat.

Screamingabdabz · 06/01/2025 23:45

If it were me I’d:

refuse silly pronouns
go with the ‘we are all non binary darling’

And,

Freddie, if you think you’re gay, or not, me and dad are perfectly fine with that (yawn), in fact we couldn’t care less as long as you’re happy.

Then crack on as if nothing ever happened. Be interested in his life and friendships (like any good parent is) and relax. But don’t compromise your boundaries.

Kalalily · 06/01/2025 23:56

pollymere · 06/01/2025 23:01

We're talking about people being non-binary and you've gone straight to medical transitions?!

Unless you've got a whole lot of money it takes years and years to transition and you have a huge number of psych hoops to get through first.

Teacher and parent. Cons are Conventions usually for anime or video games.

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Thank you for replying.
It starts as being non binary for many. Then Trans. Then hormones. This is why Dr Cass says that social transition (changing names and pronouns, clothing etc all reversible) is not a neutral act as it starts children and adolescents on a path that may not be easy to come back from and may influence them by confirming to them that they are indeed the opposite gender.
Do you have any idea how cheap it is for young people to buy hormones online from Gender GP as part of a shared care arrangement with their GP. The GP will check the dosage and organise bloods but there are no real hoops to jump through as far as I can make out. Hopefully that is/will change but self identifying as trans is a big part of the equation.
Gender GP operate out of Singapore I believe and one of the founders is under investigation. You would not want this level of health care for your child but practically every trans young person I have knowledge of is accessing hormones from GenderGP. Those doctors do not have our kids interests at heart. It is purely financial. Why do you think us parents are out of our minds with worry. We have been frightened into affirmation by threats of suicide but, thankfully, the evidence does not back this up.
Parents have nowhere to go to for help. The stakes are so high for those that persist.
it is really important that schools do their due diligence and educate themselves on the reality of trans healthcare and just how high the stakes are for young people who become entrenched in gender ideology.
I can understand how schools rushed to affirm in the past, thinking it was the kind, supportive thing to do, but it is negligent to continue to do so now that the Tavistock has been shut down and Dr Hilary Cass has published her report and recommendations. Please ask your school to research this and seek updated guidance.

Original poster

Chipshopninja · 07/01/2025 00:20

Screamingabdabz · 06/01/2025 23:45

If it were me I’d:

refuse silly pronouns
go with the ‘we are all non binary darling’

And,

Freddie, if you think you’re gay, or not, me and dad are perfectly fine with that (yawn), in fact we couldn’t care less as long as you’re happy.

Then crack on as if nothing ever happened. Be interested in his life and friendships (like any good parent is) and relax. But don’t compromise your boundaries.

What's with the "yawn" ?

Of course I don't care if he's gay or bi. Couldn't give less of a shit.
That's a completely different topic

OP posts:

Thoughtsonallsorts · 07/01/2025 00:27

Kalalily · 06/01/2025 23:56

Thank you for replying.
It starts as being non binary for many. Then Trans. Then hormones. This is why Dr Cass says that social transition (changing names and pronouns, clothing etc all reversible) is not a neutral act as it starts children and adolescents on a path that may not be easy to come back from and may influence them by confirming to them that they are indeed the opposite gender.
Do you have any idea how cheap it is for young people to buy hormones online from Gender GP as part of a shared care arrangement with their GP. The GP will check the dosage and organise bloods but there are no real hoops to jump through as far as I can make out. Hopefully that is/will change but self identifying as trans is a big part of the equation.
Gender GP operate out of Singapore I believe and one of the founders is under investigation. You would not want this level of health care for your child but practically every trans young person I have knowledge of is accessing hormones from GenderGP. Those doctors do not have our kids interests at heart. It is purely financial. Why do you think us parents are out of our minds with worry. We have been frightened into affirmation by threats of suicide but, thankfully, the evidence does not back this up.
Parents have nowhere to go to for help. The stakes are so high for those that persist.
it is really important that schools do their due diligence and educate themselves on the reality of trans healthcare and just how high the stakes are for young people who become entrenched in gender ideology.
I can understand how schools rushed to affirm in the past, thinking it was the kind, supportive thing to do, but it is negligent to continue to do so now that the Tavistock has been shut down and Dr Hilary Cass has published her report and recommendations. Please ask your school to research this and seek updated guidance.

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You are right to sound & be so worried about education in todays society. Parents can do a lot to stop children being influenced to the point they are so confused they don't know who or what they are. If the school your children are attending preach this dogma to your child all you can do is say not on my watch and hope they stop it.

CrowleyKitten · 07/01/2025 00:49

Thoughtsonallsorts · 06/01/2025 08:58

I seriously don't understand this. They/them in the English language is plural & means more than one person. If a person said to me they left an hour ago I would assume the person didn't leave alone. It doesn't make sense.

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singular they them has existed for hundreds of years now.

Thoughtsonallsorts · 07/01/2025 00:52

CrowleyKitten · 07/01/2025 00:49

singular they them has existed for hundreds of years now.

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That has been established. It doesn't mean to say language should be changed for everyone.

Firealarm1414 · 07/01/2025 04:14

CrowleyKitten · 07/01/2025 00:49

singular they them has existed for hundreds of years now.

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Yes, not for your own child though, unless you are referring to your unborn child whose sex you don't know, or for any person who you know the sex of. Its completely unnatural and incorrect to use they/them in this way and its dishonest to suggest otherwise

MiffyBuns · 07/01/2025 07:38

CrowleyKitten · 07/01/2025 00:49

singular they them has existed for hundreds of years now.

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When you don't know the sex of the person you're talking about.

"I went to the Dr's today about my rash"
"Oh, what did they say?"

If you know the sex of the person you wouldn't use they.

"I went to see the Dr today about my rash, she's new but she's really nice"
"Oh what did she say?"

When you look at a 'non binary' person you always know what sex they are!

Delphinium20 · 07/01/2025 08:08

people that look male have less freedom about what they can wear in public without attracting unwanted attention.

Oh my stars! Please share the planet you're on and when the next spaceship takes off...I need to live there. Imagine, a world where women have the freedom to wear whatever they want w/out attracting unwanted attention.(can we pick up the women in Afghanistan on our way out of the atmosphere?)

Lostcat · 07/01/2025 08:10

When you look at a 'non binary' person you always know what sex they are!

Oh really? How did you manage to verify this and come to such a conclusion? Please inform my non- binary friend who repeatedly has people mistaking their sex as registered at birth. They were born female, however they are most commonly mistaken for a very effeminate gay man or a trans woman and are subject to a lot of both homophobic and trans- misogynistic abuse.

@MiffyBuns

Delphinium20 · 07/01/2025 08:28

Lostcat · 07/01/2025 08:10

When you look at a 'non binary' person you always know what sex they are!

Oh really? How did you manage to verify this and come to such a conclusion? Please inform my non- binary friend who repeatedly has people mistaking their sex as registered at birth. They were born female, however they are most commonly mistaken for a very effeminate gay man or a trans woman and are subject to a lot of both homophobic and trans- misogynistic abuse.

@MiffyBuns

Edited

I doubt it. It's more likely the person is trying to guess what your friend prefers to be seen as and is making a guess. Not that they honestly wonder about their sex.

Does your friend believe they are tricking people?

MsGrumpytrousers · 07/01/2025 08:30

Chipshopninja · 05/01/2025 22:49

I'm still on the thread and taking on advice

Not taking any notice of the stupid arguments though

Day 2 of not using his new pronouns and he is yet to disown me so that's a plus

Well done!

I have a friend who has both a teenage daughter saying she's non-binary and a son who's decided he's really a girl. We sat down together and went through Matilda Gosling's advice on teenagers and gender identity - very calm and sensible and practical, with suggestions and insights from a range of professionals. She found it really helpful. sex-matters.org/posts/publications/teenagers-and-gender-identity-part-3/

Lostcat · 07/01/2025 08:33

Delphinium20 · 07/01/2025 08:28

I doubt it. It's more likely the person is trying to guess what your friend prefers to be seen as and is making a guess. Not that they honestly wonder about their sex.

Does your friend believe they are tricking people?

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I doubt it. It's more likely the person is trying to guess what your friend prefers to be seen as and is making a guess. Not that they honestly wonder about their sex.

Um no. People often think they are male and trying to “pass” as a woman. They are very happy to say so and are certainly not trying to be polite I assure you.

There are a lot of very judgmental (transphobic) people out there who are very confident in their wrong assumptions… 🤭😉

JustCrow · 07/01/2025 08:37

Delphinium20 · 07/01/2025 08:28

I doubt it. It's more likely the person is trying to guess what your friend prefers to be seen as and is making a guess. Not that they honestly wonder about their sex.

Does your friend believe they are tricking people?

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This.

Note also the doggedly sticking
to the “they/them” even though the posters friend is presumably not even aware of the thread 😂

MiffyBuns · 07/01/2025 08:45

Lostcat · 07/01/2025 08:10

When you look at a 'non binary' person you always know what sex they are!

Oh really? How did you manage to verify this and come to such a conclusion? Please inform my non- binary friend who repeatedly has people mistaking their sex as registered at birth. They were born female, however they are most commonly mistaken for a very effeminate gay man or a trans woman and are subject to a lot of both homophobic and trans- misogynistic abuse.

@MiffyBuns

Edited

Don't believe it at all.

MiffyBuns · 07/01/2025 08:55

Or she is the very,very, very rare exception to the rule. But again I doubt it. People just like to flatter these people

I know lots of trans and NB people and I've always known their sex immediately.
It's very rare someone looks like the opposite sex. Even when they are super try hards/trans.
A lot of the time the trying makes it even more obvious.
People are just naturally able to determine sex. It's part of human evolution.

Tillow4ever · 07/01/2025 08:57

katepilar · 06/01/2025 22:30

I wonder if you can put a finger on why you dont particarly feel like a woman?

I am not what a lot of people would probably call a typical woman, I am not interested in fashion, shoes, high heels, make-up, hairdressers, handbags, sexy dresses, beauty products, magazines, etc. yet I do feel like a woman.

Show quote history

I think it’s more I don’t feel like what I’m told a woman should be - all the stereotypical stuff. Maybe that’s all it is, I don’t conform to a stereotype! But I also don’t know, if sex and gender are truly two different things, what it is that makes us a particular gender. My sex is obvious.

I just feel it’s an absolute minefield and I completely understand why teenagers might struggle with being certain about who they are!