Son has just told us he is non binary

[Chipshopninja]

13 years old

Wants us to use they/them

He came out as Bi a a couple of years ago and I was fine with that but this has really hit me hard

I'm terrified that this is going to lead to hormones and surgery.

Don't know why I'm posting tbh but feeling crappy because I didn't handle it well. I cried.

I can't call him my son anymore

He's my only child

Has anyone else been through this?

Indeed, trans ideology would deny that homosexuality is actually a thing.

A very important point.

👍🏻 I’m not surprised.

So it's ok to say things about trans people that would sound like phobia if said against another group because:

Trans people have not "struggled for their rights";

Trans people are not simply looking for "acceptance".

Rather:

Being trans equates to having "beliefs" that are "like a fundamentalist religion."

Whereas when gay people ask for acceptance "they are simply asking for acceptance - if you don't like it, don't be gay! Simple."

The same could not be said for trans people.

Oh no. When trans people ask for acceptance, they are

"enforcing [their] beliefs from the top down through government agencies and male pattern threats and intimidation. The beliefs have implications for everyone else. In a relatively short space of time trans activist lobbyists have succeeded in rolling back feminism (before women achieved equality); dismantling safeguarding principles (despite the prevalence of child abuse); and disintegrating socialism (women are no longer a class)."

And none of this sounds like fear, prejudice, dislike of, negative feelings towards trans people. Nope, nada, nothing to see here.

Mmmm hmmmm.

People declaring themselves as 'non binary' have pretty much exactly the same relationship with sex stereotypes as anyone else. So a little bit of pushback towards people making a big deal about mundane stuff is to be expected I think.

Not everything everyone does or says has to be met with wild applause. That doesn't mean it's 'phobic'.

@Lostcat what rights do the rest of us have that trans people don't?

Ultimately, the only rights I see them fighting for is the right to compel the rest of the world to say we believe another that human can change sex and to afford them access to said single sex spaces etc on the basis of their own belief about themselves.

If we are repeatedly told that being trans is not a medical condition, then where do the repeated demands for "trans healthcare" come from? Why is it now imperative that children have access to puberty blockers if trans people have, by their own decree, existed for centuries? Why is it only since PBs became available that so many young people will "die" if they don't have access to them (another demonstrably false and dangerous claim by TRAs)

What these activists are campaigning for are not rights, it's privileges. Trans people, in law, have exactly the same rights as everyone else. They're one of the most legally and policy based coddled demographics in existence. Make up allegedly less than 1% of the population yet somehow that means our very institutions and establishments have the change the language they use in order to accommodate this tiny minority? "Chest feeding" "uterus havers" "people with cervixes" ...

Not everything everyone does or says has to be met with wild applause. That doesn't mean it's 'phobic'

Mmmm. Wonderful minimisation there.

The statement, if directed at another group, would clearly be identified as phobic.

However, when directed at a trans person it is of course not the least bit phobic; rather, it is simply nothing more than "not meeting everything with wild applause".

Exactly. Not unquestioningly giving people a range of privileges isn't being negative or phobic towards someone.

No one can change sex. The population at large should not be compelled to pretend they can.

Ultimately, the only rights I see them fighting for is the right to compel the rest of the world to say we believe another that human can change sex and to afford them access to said single sex spaces etc on the basis of their own belief about themselves.

Indeed. And all others are saying is "no, sorry, I don't believe males can be women. You can have your ideological belief but I don't see why it should affect the rights of women".

But 'non-binary' is not some special group of people. It's pretty much everyone. What makes a person declaring themselves 'non-binary' any different to every average person who is neither wholly male or wholly female when it comes to identifying with sex stereotypes?

Hear hear spot on.
Affirmation doesn't help with the mass social contagion. At local school so many girls are saying non binary several are using male names too. The attention it generated and the ability to get sympathy if someone used the "wrong" pronouns is ridiculous. It's nonsense.

Totally agree.

People are now pushing back having seen the damage done with this ideology. Time for common sense and protection of children now.

"Not everything everyone does or says has to be met with wild applause. That doesn't mean it's 'phobic'.'

Very well said. It's also not 'kind' or positive or even neutral to affirm the delusion that you can change sex, or be born in 'the wrong body'. Completely agree with other posters that everyone is non-binary - no one behaves like a walking Barbie or Action Man, we all have our own personalities. I don't blame kids one bit for finding the transition to adulthood painful, weird and confusing - we all did in one way or another - but adults who get involved in the trans / non binary narrative need to have a long hard think about the damage they are doing

Transition is not backed by science - that's just a fact, and has been found to be the case in the Cass review and other reviews in other countries. The Dutch protocol, which is the basis for childhood medical transition, had a child who died directly as a result of surgical transition. That should have put the brakes on things, but has been handwaved away. There was no consideration of whether the adults constant 'affirmation' could have influenced the child's desire for this surgery.

The confounding of male and female 'transition' is also unscientific. The effect of stopping puberty on male and female bodies is entirely different, the surgery is entirely different, yet it's all lumped together (a bit like adult middle aged male transitioners are lumped together as 'trans' with confused teenagers). These cohorts have nothing to do with each other.

There's also been no scientific study of the psychological impact of compulsion of wrong sex pronouns (e.g. in some schools) and the impact on learning English Language in general.

(a bit like adult middle aged male transitioners are lumped together as 'trans' with confused teenagers)

And enjoy pontificating on what these teenage mostly girls "need".

Sorry meant to quote @themostspecialelfintheworkshop

Comparing identifying as trans nowadays to being gay historically is really unhelpful especially for the young people currently questioning their identity, vulnerable young people, many of whom are in a MH crisis or have become fixated on gender and have an All or Nothing mentality. Being told, as they are online, that their parents will be on the wrong side of history is really damaging. Being gay doesn’t involve messing with your endocrine system by blocking your natural occurring hormones and taking the opposite sex hormones. Nor does it lead to genital mutilation. The reason puberty blockers are now banned in the UK is because there is insufficient evidence to show they are safe. A trial was recommended but it is hard to see how such a trial could be carried out.

I’d of said I didn’t know what periods were at 11 or sex really. Schools push this stuff really early on now. I think from around age 7. I get that there’s an element of we talk about this stuff and it helps prevent sexual abuse of children. It does seem a bit much for very young children though. My DS quite frankly hated it and declared himself asexual at 12.

I was a bit like well yes you should be asexual at 12 but he’s stuck with it now at 14. I suspect it’s a protective thing as it’s an identity and he doesn’t need to engage with the whole who fancies who sagas in school.

We SHOULD have known about periods way before then. I started mine 2 weeks after my 9th birthday and while I had the vaguest idea about them, I really wish we'd been taught about them. I wish the other students knew about them properly. It was awful.

In quoting me you have cropped and changed my words to exclude vital context.

Maybe willfully, maybe subconsciously in some kind of fervour, who knows?

It is an important thing to note though. What I actually said (I'll add bold to help) was "trans ideology operates like a fundamentalist religion enforcing its beliefs..."

It's really important to be able to criticise belief systems. Fundamentalist iterations of ANY religion or belief system cause harm. Can you imagine if fundamentalist Christianity or fundamentalist Islam were having the same kind of government influence and authoritarian control that fundamentalist trans ideology currently has?

Not all trans people advocate for trans ideology. Many trans people are perfectly clear that they are their physical sex; that homosexuality is real; that women are a class and have rights; that child safeguarding is important. Perhaps even more importantly, not all advocates for trans ideology are themselves trans.

There is a huge difference between accepting the humanity and personal habits of a trans person and accepting the regressive, misogynist, homophobic belief systems of trans ideology.

How exactly - according to you - is a trans person able to be trans and ask for acceptance as trans, without being accused of promoting "trans ideology"?

You know there are lots of contexts/ cultures in which being gay is also viewed as a dangerous (and contagious), typically "western", ideology.

Most of those who think of themselves as nonbinary are young people. Young people tend to “have a severe case of main character syndrome” - it’s part of being young. They’re supposed to be like that, however tedious it is for those around them.

We grow out of it in most cases.

If understanding one’s place in the world is to be see the (externally imposed) gender norms as two opposing states, it’s understandable a person might reject either of those and stand to the side and think of oneself as nonbinary.

However, those two aren’t the only ways to be. The reason so many of us older feminists get wound up and frustrated by the nonbinary identity, I expect, is that for our entire adult lives we’ve been rejecting those gender norms, fighting against them being imposed on ourselves and trying to make a world where our sons and daughters are free of that restrictive bullshit.

To see a way of thinking that complete embraces gender norms as the standard, with the special tribe of nonbinary people “refusing to be put in gender boxes” drives us mad, because it legitimises the boxes.

Screw the boxes. Everyone is nonbinary because no one belongs in the box.

I supposed they could also say something like "Not all gay people advocate for gay ideology. Many gay people are perfectly clear that they are in fact straight. They accept that straight people need to be kept apart from gays, and that children need safeguarding against being gay. More importantly perhaps many advocates for gay ideology aren't themselves gay".

But despite being homophobic, they aren't such gasslighters.

@NeonSigns

Most of those who think of themselves as nonbinary are young people. Young people tend to “have a severe case of main character syndrome” - it’s part of being young. They’re supposed to be like that, however tedious it is for those around them.

We grow out of it in most cases.

If understanding one’s place in the world is to be see the (externally imposed) gender norms as two opposing states, it’s understandable a person might reject either of those and stand to the side and think of oneself as nonbinary.

However, those two aren’t the only ways to be. The reason so many of us older feminists get wound up and frustrated by the nonbinary identity, I expect, is that for our entire adult lives we’ve been rejecting those gender norms, fighting against them being imposed on ourselves and trying to make a world where our sons and daughters are free of that restrictive bullshit.

To see a way of thinking that complete embraces gender norms as the standard, with the special tribe of nonbinary people “refusing to be put in gender boxes” drives us mad, because it legitimises the boxes.

Screw the boxes. Everyone is nonbinary because no one belongs in the box.

Yes, excellent post.

what rights do the rest of us have that trans people don't?

@Lostcat I would like to know this too! I would also be interested in what your definition of trans actually is because the comparisons with homosexuality don't make any sense.

Edited because the quoted post got lost.