Gov refuses home office investigation into historic child sex abuse in Oldham

[Perzival]

I've just read on x that Jess Phillips has formally declined Oldham council's request for the HO to investigate the grooming gangs in Oldham. Why on Earth would they do this? Apparently JP says it should be a local investigation? Clearly that is a conflict of interests and if the council are asking for help they should?

The only link I can find other than x is GB news (apologies).

https://www.gbnews.com/news/oldham-grooming-gangs-labour-government-inquiry-abuse-scandal

That will never happen under labour. Hopefully after these 5 years they will never get in again. I think they know this which is why they're looking at gerrymandering the system with votes for 16 year old, non-citizens etc. Sorry whole other topic.

I don't think it's fair to lump all Asian people in together either or say multicultural hasn't worked.

In many cases it's working beautifully.

The area struggling is trying to blend a medieval mind set and values laced with s strict religion that dominates, into a liberal western modern democracy with entirely different values.

I don't think it's fair to lump all Asian people in together either or say multicultural hasn't worked.

I think immigration works best when they assimilate rather than ghettoising.
So if you mean multiculturalism in the sense that people immigrate but maintain their home country culture, perhaps it has been a failure.
That obviously doesn't mean that all immigration is a failure. I do think that immigrants need to be a good fit, and numbers should be carefully controlled and low enough that there isn't any particular social impact.

https://x.com/SAshworthHayes/status/1875535756531519934

Fantastic article from Sam Ashworth Hayes in today's telegraph.
Article is in the tweet linked.

I think any group of men can abuse given freedom to do so. Having friends in social services, police local council/ education are all features of abuse scandals going back decades.

I would never lump all Asians together, in my post I said specifically Pakistanis. You need to watch when Stacey Dooley visited Luton. Multicultural is not the same as multi-racial (I wish people would realise that). Multiracial can work if carefully managed but needs to be people with similar values as unity is the most important thing. It has been proved that monocultural societies have alot more trust and harmony - I can see this in the UK since I was a kid in the 70s.

I have been so upset reading some of the details of the cases that have been shared on X. I can’t believe more people on here aren’t talking about it. I knew about the grooming gangs, knew about the institutional failures and potential corruption and have watched a long form interview of Maggie Oliver on Triggernometry some time ago. However, I was not aware of the savagery of the treatment of the girls and the racist element to it. This is basically modern slavery and a lot of people seem more concerned about calling out Musk for highlighting it then facing up to the problem. You don’t need to ‘know about British politics’ to comment on a situation that saw the sexual brutalisation of potentially 250000 pre-pubescent and teenage girls and those media types and politicians pushing that line really need to take a long hard look in the mirror. It reminds me of the likes of Jon Sopel and Owen Jones defending Huw Edwards. These people are despicable. It really highlights how class ridden our society still is. They despise the working classes - the people I grew up with. Anybody who doesn’t share their eloquence or education who speaks up is just dismissed as racist or far right.
I had always been a Labour voter but gave up a few years ago after it became clear that they actively hated the working classes more than the Tories who are just casually indifferent. They are and have been for a while the party of the globalist metropolitan elites. I now know I will never vote Labour again and have never voted for the Tories. Let’s see who steps up to offer an alternative.
Meanwhile, last night my 9 year old daughter asked me to sing her to sleep surrounded by her teddies. I did so, then went and burst into tears for those poor, poor children who we have all let down so badly.

Douglas Murray discusses the topic at hand. Before dismissing him as a "far-right" bigot and disregarding his views, I urge for
preconceived notions to be set aside and
listen.

He raises valid points about how Britain often chooses to look the other way; far
easier to vilify those who raise the alarm, deflecting responsibility by scapegoating whistleblowers.

In 2004, Anne Cryer, Labour MP for Keighley, tried to expose grooming gangs targeting young girls, primarily by men from the local Pakistani community, but she was smeared as "Islamophobic" and “racist” to silence her. Her efforts to obtain help for her constituents (who had reached out to her i sheer desperation) led to threats against her, ultimately requiring police protection.

A cover up for 25 years; a quarter of a century.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=fDh85cohwms

I don't think it's fair to lump all Asian people in together either or say multicultural hasn't worked
In many cases it's working beautifully

I'm not keen on lumping any group of people together, but do agree about multiculturalism working just fine among many - though these are often the type who'll quite rightly honour their own culture while still joining in another and would have done it anyway, even without the endless initiatives

The problem starts when you get folk who've no intention of adapting their mediaeval mindsets, and instead of appreciating accommodation see it as proof of the west's weakness - and IME the vast majority of decent asian people detest them just as much as everyone else, which is why I said they're being thrown under the bus too

Good luck persuading those seized with "everything's the west's fault" of that though; they've had an awfully long time to develop their dangerous ideology and tend not to give it up willingly, even when what's happening is explained to them by their target demographic

Absolutely. And no way will anyone benefitting from the human rights industry (the ‘charities’, hotel owners, etc) give it up either. Let’s face it, most of them are working for the government.

@D23456789 if C4 show that documentary I can only believe they are trying to change the narrative and make people continue to doubt victims of rape who dare to speak out. These young girls were seen as not being credible witnesses. It was easy to dismiss their claims.

Not sure why anyone would want to do that at present? But they must think the British public are daft.

Then going forward I can’t see how I can trust the channel 4 news/ documentaries? Especially when they seem to think we are daft. So that’s my trust in the bbc and c4 gone.

Honestly the scale (and impact) of this is huge. I am not a journalist or investigator and I could hash up a report from the amount of sources available - bbc and c4 journalists could do a great informative job and help the girls get justice - and educate the public on signs of grooming etc - they are choosing not to. My question is why are they choosing not to?

No way will anyone benefitting from the human rights industry (the ‘charities’, hotel owners, etc) give it up either

Completely spot on there, @User8646382, especially in accurately labelling this an "industry" - and that's before we get to the endless quangos who all too often provide a comfortable roost for the otherwise unemployable

You don't fund someone to tell you how awful such-and-such is and then expect them not to tell you that, or at least if you do there's a disappointment coming

Anne cryer was labeled as islamaphobist.

We don't hear of catholicapobia or Hinduaphobic.

Why? Does anyone care if someone is Catholicaphobist?

i meant actual social services or police reports... not a Lord making a statement in the HoL that may or may not be accurate.

100s of Pakistani and other men have been sent to jail for these crimes.... how was it covered it up? the first reports in the media were in 1998 and in Private Eye, even earlier.
Google gives a whole host of reports and commissions into this, going back decades.

I'm really struggling into how, yet another report, will prevent one single child from being abused... much like the report into Social Care... commonly known as "kicking a difficult problem into the long grass"

We need action, more resources, more Police targeting these scum, a far quicker court system and better provision in child social services.

The grooming scandal is seen as a cover-up because, despite some of tbe perpetrators being convicted, the full extent of the abuse was ignored or downplayed for years by authorities, and done to avoid political backlash.

Self-serving officials were hesitant to confront the involvement of certain communities or acknowledge the systemic nature of the problem.

Even after convictions, the issue remains a cover-up because the underlying failures—such as the reluctance of police and social services to investigate or intervene—have never been fully addressed. The persistence of these failures and the ongoing reluctance to confront the broader cultural and institutional issues surrounding grooming gangs suggest that the cover-up is still continuing today.

A national report is crucial as it will demonstrate that the public establishment is willing to confront and address the scandal head-on, potentially restoring some public confidence. With growing anger and profound disillusionment in all our institutions, a report could might go a tiny way of showing accountability.

I won’t hold my breath though.

I believe the details of the crimes is causing the current debate and public outcry. The cover up was the detail of the crimes. People are crowd funding now to get the details into the public domain. This was not grooming in the traditional sense, it was rape, murder, torture, threats to kill, cigarettes being stubbed out. Forced abortions. Girls being killed. Back street abortions. Slavery. Forced Islamic marriage. Parents of victims being arrested. Girls being given back to their abusers. All known about by the police, social services, council, MPs, etc etc. And so many interviews and articles and MP comments etc are in the public domain.

Also TRIGGER - a young girl being raped anally by 4 men at once (that’s all four at exactly the same time). Girls being raped with broken bottles. Young Girls needing hysterectomies due to the damage.

@Alexandra2001 The problem with police and social worker numbers is it is very clear they downplayed what was happening. Would you trust their figures? I wouldn’t. A police foi request shows the police didn’t warn parents their girls were being groomed at the school gates by Pakistani men to avoid stoking community tensions. A social worker allowed her the 15 to marry her rapist (Islamic wedding) and then the rapists parents to foster her. So how can you trust social workers and police numbers, they are unreliable and maybe even involved in the cover up.

That’s why it needs a national enquiry by people who have no link to the areas to establish the victims and extent of the cover up this can occur while improving the number of arrests and speed to trial and imprisonment of all child sex offenders. Deport on release if duel citizens (if I went to Japan or Canada or Dubai and stole or assaulted or drunk drove or smoked cannabis - never mind abusing girls - I’d expect to be deported and banned from the country for life) . As these gang rapists seem to torture and use rape to terrorise they need to be charged accordingly.

Personally I think the victims should do a class action lawsuit and sue the rapists, any family members who were aware, government, cps, police, council, social workers and anyone else involved. Nothing like money to focus the mind.

I guess the alternative is no enquiry and increased mistrust of the government and public bodies by British citizens and foreigners. We are now known globally to be a light touch on paedophilia. We also apparently allow rapists to remain in the U.K. when they father a child through rape AND still see the child.

This was posted on X by one victim-

’’ I have been trying to maintain healthy boundaries with my rapist ex for 12 years now. My youngest, who resulted from violent rape, is the only one who wants to see him. She has no idea of the circumstances of her creation. Social services demanded that he have access and that I facilitate it as he took voluntary redundancy and gambled it all away. He can not therefore afford a contact centre and does not financially contribute. It has been hell as he is an abusive stalker who doesn't take 'no' for an answer. He has stalked my eldest 2, who refuse contact and both are traumatised by his behaviour. This open sore means it's impossible for us to move on and heal as a family. We are constantly in fear of his potential for repercussions. Social services commissioned psych reports on all of us and he was judged a high risk for 'family annihilation". Despite this they insisted upon contact and we have been 'managing' this monster ever since’’.

I don’t see how social service numbers are trustworthy.

I no longer trust the BBC and Channel 4. I listened to BBC R4 every day for over 15 years and watched the BBC news daily. Now I doubt i will ever actively listen to the BBC again. I can’t be the only boringly law abiding, tax paying, middle class person who feels this way.

People are crowd funding now to get the details into the public domain

I believe (but am not sure - can anyone advise?) that such details can probably be withheld if there's perceived to be a risk to public safety consequent on their release

So while crowdfunding's all very well it may not automatically bring disclosure

And nor should it. That way lies madness.

Many of these crimes occurred when the public sector was swimming in cash. Money has nothing to do with it. It's what's prioritised. I'll never believe it's money.

For years, the public was led to believe that this was all about older teenager girls exchanging sex for lifts and mobile phones. Exploitative and wrong, yes.

If anyone is still confused about this eruption of public anger, it's because people are starting to learn and understand what really went on. I have seen glimpses of some of the court transcripts and I quickly averted my eyes. It is too awful and I cannot bear knowing any more than I do.

But I don't disagree with this campaign to fund the release of transcripts. It came about because one girl sought access to her court transcripts on the advice of her therapist, to help her process what happened to her. Because of the length of the transcripts (you pay per page) it would cost her thousands to obtain them. That's why the crowdfunder was started. Details: https://x.com/G0ADM/status/1875236620351500299

Scared of what it will show?
The only way is to lance the boil, either prove those of us who believe the working class girls were sold for a mixture of votes and the great multicultural experiment wrong and those who believe it didn't happen or in the words of Lily Allen the girls would have been abused by someone right.

I

Ann Cryer basically sacrificed her career over this when she was the Labour MP for Keighley (part of Bradford) in the 1990s. She was an early whistleblower, and was silenced.

in addition to the rape gangs issue, she had several attempts at remonstrating with the local Pakistani community which were reported in local papers in the 1990s. I can remember a few examples e.g.

Pakistani Airlines had started flying 747s twice a week between Lahore and Leeds Bradford airport. Ann got agreement from the airline that if aircrew found a distressed girl on the flight, they would separate her from whoever she was flying with and hand her to official staff on landing - an attempt to stop forced marriages.

She got the Pakistan Consul from London to visit Keighley to address the community about integration and women’s rights. She told the local community that if the audience contained only men, the Consul was getting back in his car and returning straight to London. (Pakistan now has an entire Consulate in Bradford to serve its community).

She also called out consanguineous marriages, having visited the pediatric ward at the local Airedale Hospital and found every bed occupied by a Pakistani child being treated for defects.

She really tried.

We ve had numerous inquiries, we know what needs doing... its not exactly rocket science as the laws involved in CSA are here already.

Whats not here is court time, Police resources... look we all know how over stretched the justice system and prisons are, the fix is simple, more resources.

What exactly is the point of yet another inquiry, whose findings may or may not be acted upon?

the IIRC one 2 years ago was ignored and to the best of knowledge didn't even get a mention on MN or any where else, least of all by that toad Musk.

The police didn't turn a blind eye to wholesale rape of underage girls due to their lack of resources. It was due to their misogyny and their reluctance to deal with angry Pakistani men. Giving the police more money isn't the simple solution to this

That was back then, now they don't get away with this quite so easily, however, thats not my point.... & i'm pretty sure cutting police numbers by 20k is not helping the situation at all.

What exactly is the good of yet another inquiry when the ones before have not been implemented?

Now, more than happy to see an inquiry into why Cryer and Champion, plenty of others too, were ignored/shunned/blacklisted and why Govts turned a blind eye but i don't want years of delay, when we already know the solutions, all that will mean is even more inaction and abuse.