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Gov refuses home office investigation into historic child sex abuse in Oldham

1000 replies

Perzival · 01/01/2025 23:45

I've just read on x that Jess Phillips has formally declined Oldham council's request for the HO to investigate the grooming gangs in Oldham. Why on Earth would they do this? Apparently JP says it should be a local investigation? Clearly that is a conflict of interests and if the council are asking for help they should?

The only link I can find other than x is GB news (apologies).

https://www.gbnews.com/news/oldham-grooming-gangs-labour-government-inquiry-abuse-scandal

Labour REJECTS Oldham's call for Government inquiry into grooming gangs scandal

Safeguarding Minister Jess Phillips has said Oldham should 'take its own approach' instead

https://www.gbnews.com/news/oldham-grooming-gangs-labour-government-inquiry-abuse-scandal

OP posts:
Thread gallery
47
Atissues · 03/01/2025 21:01

User37482 · 03/01/2025 20:44

Another just mind boggling snippet.

I saw that.

I still can’t understand how these rapists approach their cousins and fathers and colleagues and associates and get to the point where they are watching each other rape a child.

Surely there must be men who refused and women who read texts or walked in. Did they report it? If not is that a crime? if they didn’t report it - why didn’t they report it. Because that is a HUGE problem. If people are overlooking kids being raped to protect their colleague.

Babadookinthewardrobe · 03/01/2025 21:08

OneLemonDog · 03/01/2025 18:29

I'd like to see Musk focus on tackling child sex abuse on X.

I think it was a mistake for him to lay off most of the Twitter employees tasked with identifying and removing images of child sexual abuse.

I'd like to see him and X actually engage with the Australian government's anti child abuse inquiry, rather than continuing to hide information.

I also support the Australian governments proposal to protect kids online by lifting the minimum age for social media use to 16 - I don't think Musk is right to continue to fight against these measures to protect kids.

Look, a squirrel.

Perhaps you could start your own thread to discuss Musk’s future strategy with X and the Australian government’s policy. This thread is about the horrific rape gangs in the UK and the failure of successive governments to effectively deal with this scourge.

itsjustbiology · 03/01/2025 21:10

There is only one Gentleman who needs to be listened to. One who has been languishing in jail for spending the last 20 odd years trying to stop all this.For trying to protect these children at great cost to himself and his family. This gentleman has put his life on the line more than once and has been ridiculed and berated by so many people in power who should be terrified and are of the information he holds, He needs now a massive apology and a public platform and he deserves to be listened to properly. That man is Tommy. Nothing that is coming out now has been a surprise to us, who listened to him and understood the man behind the myths in the first place

CandlesOrangesRedribbon · 03/01/2025 21:11

@Atissues

Surely this is where the real crux is?... are the perps questioned on how they got to that point??

User37482 · 03/01/2025 21:15

Atissues · 03/01/2025 21:01

I saw that.

I still can’t understand how these rapists approach their cousins and fathers and colleagues and associates and get to the point where they are watching each other rape a child.

Surely there must be men who refused and women who read texts or walked in. Did they report it? If not is that a crime? if they didn’t report it - why didn’t they report it. Because that is a HUGE problem. If people are overlooking kids being raped to protect their colleague.

I’m asian but not Pakistani, I think it’s probably worse in families that marry in. They will be extremely clannish and will cover for each other regardless.

Tbh I can’t get my head around it either, none of my cousins would take it well if one of them started talking about getting children drunk and raping them. It points to a cultural problem tbh, thats the only explanation. You have to have a culture of dehumanising girls (probably white girls specifically) to be able to even bring it up in conversation. I struggle with it because it’s really hard to understand. The explanation that makes the most sense is that these families have a culture of speaking about white girls in a specific way and women generally in a “she had it coming” way.

Clearly from my post further up muslim girls who have been without a male in the household have also been targeted. I posted elsewhere about how biobank found children born as the result of incest (as in with father/brother)is significantly higher in the Pakistani community than britain as a whole (this was according to a Mathhew Syed article in “The Times” but the data has never been published). I think there is a culture of hushing up abuse within families let alone to women outside the family. It’s a cultural problem, just an attitude towards females that is abusive.

User37482 · 03/01/2025 21:18

CandlesOrangesRedribbon · 03/01/2025 21:11

@Atissues

Surely this is where the real crux is?... are the perps questioned on how they got to that point??

I always wondered what psychologists make of these people. From news reports I read years ago etc it’s all “white slag is lying” stuff and that their prosecution is just racism and they are being picked on because they are muslim and the state is corrupt. Just deflection.

User37482 · 03/01/2025 21:21

I think I need to stop reading about this for a few days, my heart hurts for these children. I hope there enough righteous rage out there to keep the pressure up on finding and punishing these men.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/grooming-gangs-taskforce-arrests-hundreds-in-first-year

I really hope this taskforce is expanded, it did some good work but I think there’s probably a lot more to do.

Grooming Gangs Taskforce arrests hundreds in first year

A dedicated police taskforce set up to bring down grooming gangs has supported police forces in England and Wales to make hundreds of arrests in its first year. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/grooming-gangs-taskforce-arrests-hundreds-in-first-year

CandlesOrangesRedribbon · 03/01/2025 21:24

@User37482 but have any gov pyscologists even looked at it all??

Totallymessed · 03/01/2025 21:34

"You cannot prioritise public order over justice. We do not do this with other crimes"
@Namechangetry absolutely. And ironically, it isn't even going to prevent public order problems. It just means they will come from different people.

Papyrophile · 03/01/2025 21:36

The BBC is captured by their own diversity, equality, inclusion propaganda. Well-intentioned of course, no one wants to be labelled racist. But once that turns into an institutional refusal to call out wrong doing for fear of being called racist, it has gone much too far.

Totallymessed · 03/01/2025 21:38

Barr77 · 03/01/2025 20:58

But they won’t.

It’s staggering how the so many so called left-wing media outlets have refused to report on this story.

Instead of focusing on the children at the centre of this horrific grooming scandal,
The Guardian has published a piece about how Elon Musk is allegedly “politicising” the issue. Musk has also been called separately in other articles the world’s richest ‘pub bore’ and ‘troll’.

So it is Musk who is at fault here for questioning the liberal orthodoxy.

While the public’s anger may not always hit the headlines, the sense of betrayal—especially towards institutions meant to protect the most vulnerable—is still palpable.

The erosion of trust in our political and social institutions is incredibly dangerous and there are consequences of this betrayal, which undermine the very systems meant to safeguard the most vulnerable in society.

The erosion of trust in social and political institutions also breeds deep anger, particularly among those who feel their voices are ignored or disregarded. When populist movements tap into this anger, they often frame it as a rejection of the "establishment" promising to dismantle or replace the very institutions people no longer trust.

I agree. I think the country is being taken down a dangerous road, and it's in everyone's interest to try and stop it.

Nutellla · 03/01/2025 21:43

Is there a petition demanding a Home Office investigation? I can only find old ones.

CandlesOrangesRedribbon · 03/01/2025 21:45

@User37482

"daddy" the Oldham welfare worker who ran his ring directly out of council offices... Also had a young Asian girl used as his possession and he was also incriminated about crimes against her.

In the bbc drama three girls, there is mention of the women also suffering in the "community".
One also has to remember many women are brought from Pakistan which had a totally different legal system, with many times no English at all and married in often to cousins

What power does that woman have? She's instantly doubly vulnerable and I bet she doesn't understand she's in a very liberal free county actually where she can free herself.

There are layers upon layers of bullying and intimidation in many families like this and they are vulnerable.

Totallymessed · 03/01/2025 21:47

User37482 · 03/01/2025 21:15

I’m asian but not Pakistani, I think it’s probably worse in families that marry in. They will be extremely clannish and will cover for each other regardless.

Tbh I can’t get my head around it either, none of my cousins would take it well if one of them started talking about getting children drunk and raping them. It points to a cultural problem tbh, thats the only explanation. You have to have a culture of dehumanising girls (probably white girls specifically) to be able to even bring it up in conversation. I struggle with it because it’s really hard to understand. The explanation that makes the most sense is that these families have a culture of speaking about white girls in a specific way and women generally in a “she had it coming” way.

Clearly from my post further up muslim girls who have been without a male in the household have also been targeted. I posted elsewhere about how biobank found children born as the result of incest (as in with father/brother)is significantly higher in the Pakistani community than britain as a whole (this was according to a Mathhew Syed article in “The Times” but the data has never been published). I think there is a culture of hushing up abuse within families let alone to women outside the family. It’s a cultural problem, just an attitude towards females that is abusive.

There really seems to be a subset of Pakistani men in the UK who simply regard non Muslim women and girls as completely worthless. I doubt they have much more respect for Muslim girls. It's just seems to be an attitude of total misogyny- women have no value other than to breed, and then only if they are Muslim.

Given the closeness in culture of some of Pakistan with Afghanistan, I guess it's not really surprising that some share the same attitude as the Taliban towards women.

CandlesOrangesRedribbon · 03/01/2025 21:48

@Totallymessed

But we are well into a dangerous road when parents are arrested for trying to rescue their children from attackers.

We are in the path when children in care are the highest ones at risk from violent attack and the police are pretty much totally complicit.

What more danger do you want?

Atissues · 03/01/2025 21:49

Nutellla · 03/01/2025 21:43

Is there a petition demanding a Home Office investigation? I can only find old ones.

Yes awaiting approval. It got its 20 who agree and awaits approval.

User37482 · 03/01/2025 21:54

CandlesOrangesRedribbon · 03/01/2025 21:24

@User37482 but have any gov pyscologists even looked at it all??

No idea, but when this many men from a specific background engage in a set of specific behaviours and you see that pattern repeated around the country then I would think it’s a culture of violence, extreme misogyny and racism. I mean even most misogynistic men from white or other Asian communities would be horrified at the idea of being a paedo but for these guys its fine, some of these girls weren’t even teenagers they were quite obviously little girls.

So the fact that you had so many people willing to do this and the violence inflicted on these girls, knives, burnings, beatings foreign objects inserted it just screams hate doesn’t it. It’s like satanic shit. They enjoyed inflicting pain and they enjoyed doing it as a group. There is something deeply fucked up with these men. They weren’t just paying to have sex with someone you could mistake for legal. They were paying to torture children. I imagine the humiliation of white girls was also an attraction.

CSE is far too common across all communities in the UK, no-one is exempt from it but the level of violence and perversion here is extraordinary. The level of family involvement must be unusual. I would hope someone is brave enough to even work up a profile of these kinds of offenders an honest one. I think the family aspect is particularly interesting, like people have said, how the fuck does that even work, how do you bring it up without someone in your family smacking the shit out of you and then warning the rest of the family that you are a pervert. I would also hope that social services take a safeguarding interest in the women and children within those families as well.

Totallymessed · 03/01/2025 21:55

CandlesOrangesRedribbon · 03/01/2025 21:48

@Totallymessed

But we are well into a dangerous road when parents are arrested for trying to rescue their children from attackers.

We are in the path when children in care are the highest ones at risk from violent attack and the police are pretty much totally complicit.

What more danger do you want?

I agree. But we don't seem to have any politicians- of any party- who are willing to take any action that they think might harm them politically. They just hope someone else will deal with it.

I hope it doesn't end as badly as I think it might, but I have never been so pessimistic about the future of the UK as I am at the moment.

User37482 · 03/01/2025 21:59

CandlesOrangesRedribbon · 03/01/2025 21:45

@User37482

"daddy" the Oldham welfare worker who ran his ring directly out of council offices... Also had a young Asian girl used as his possession and he was also incriminated about crimes against her.

In the bbc drama three girls, there is mention of the women also suffering in the "community".
One also has to remember many women are brought from Pakistan which had a totally different legal system, with many times no English at all and married in often to cousins

What power does that woman have? She's instantly doubly vulnerable and I bet she doesn't understand she's in a very liberal free county actually where she can free herself.

There are layers upon layers of bullying and intimidation in many families like this and they are vulnerable.

Yes I posted information upthread about muslim women being targeted. I think it’s essential to remember here that vulnerability is the main attraction.

I do think an investigation needs to be done into the levels of incest in pakistani communities. i’m not talking about cousin marriage here, this is children where the father is the mothers father or brother. Children born of incest at a significantly higher rate than “normal” indicates there are abuses going on where women are raped by their fathers and brothers and no-one cares. In Matthew Syeds article the researcher who found it said he didn’t dare publish anything on it because it would ruin his life and he has kids. The government has evidence of incestuous abuse just sitting there and no-one wants to acknowledge it exists.

I think there are some sick fucks out there that are getting away with everything they do to women in their own communities as well. Social cohesion be damned we need to smoke out the abusers.

YourFunnyMauveSnake · 03/01/2025 22:00

As our country becomes more multicultural we HAVE to learn from past failures. And the grooming gangs is a massive one. We can’t be afraid of being seen as racist.

The establishment KNEW about these Muslim gangs. I am British Sikh and in the early 2000s talks were being held at Sikh temples raising awareness on Muslim men targeting Sikh girls. We discussed their tactics - they would wear Sikh articles of faith to pretend to be Sikh, they would buy gifts and secret phones, get girls drunk and blackmail them with compromising photos. There was a helpline. I was told how to avoid falling prey.

Police were informed but nothing happened for decades. How many lives could have been saved had we been listen to. We believe Sikh girls were the initial targets.

The talks were called “Kaur to Khan”.

The dynamics of why this was allowed to go need to be examined. Too many people just wanting to cover their arse.

User37482 · 03/01/2025 22:02

Totallymessed · 03/01/2025 21:55

I agree. But we don't seem to have any politicians- of any party- who are willing to take any action that they think might harm them politically. They just hope someone else will deal with it.

I hope it doesn't end as badly as I think it might, but I have never been so pessimistic about the future of the UK as I am at the moment.

I’m actually optimistic that the pressure is building. I think it will be rough at first but we can’t fix problems we ignore and it’s getting harder to ignore all this. Especially since Sunak’s grooming taskforce published this May that they had found 550 rapists and 4000 victims. This is not old news that is work being done this year.

Theres a gofundme to raise money for the transcripts of cases so people can understand exactly how bad it was. Good, shine a light on it all.

User8646382 · 03/01/2025 22:03

@BIossomtoes - For goodness sake. If I was going to make something up, it would be a lot more dramatic than that. I’ve seen and heard stuff much worse as well - unbelievable stuff that I wouldn’t dare mention on here.

I think you are either very naive - to the point of being stupid - or you have an agenda to defend the indefensible. Either way, you’re on the wrong side of history here. People looking back at this in a hundred years aren’t going to see the radical left and their brainwashed acolytes as enlightened or progressive or intellectual or however else they see themselves (we all know that modesty isn’t one of their virtues). They’re far more likely to be put into the same category as Hitler and his Hitler Youth - and with good reason.

BIossomtoes · 03/01/2025 23:03

User8646382 · 03/01/2025 22:03

@BIossomtoes - For goodness sake. If I was going to make something up, it would be a lot more dramatic than that. I’ve seen and heard stuff much worse as well - unbelievable stuff that I wouldn’t dare mention on here.

I think you are either very naive - to the point of being stupid - or you have an agenda to defend the indefensible. Either way, you’re on the wrong side of history here. People looking back at this in a hundred years aren’t going to see the radical left and their brainwashed acolytes as enlightened or progressive or intellectual or however else they see themselves (we all know that modesty isn’t one of their virtues). They’re far more likely to be put into the same category as Hitler and his Hitler Youth - and with good reason.

Edited

Since neither of us is going to be alive that’s entirely irrelevant, not to mention pointless speculation. Please don’t call me naive, stupid or brainwashed. It’s very rude.

User8646382 · 03/01/2025 23:08

BIossomtoes · 03/01/2025 23:03

Since neither of us is going to be alive that’s entirely irrelevant, not to mention pointless speculation. Please don’t call me naive, stupid or brainwashed. It’s very rude.

Your tinfoil hat comment was equally rude, so why play the victim? You can obviously give as good as you get.

DancingOctopus · 03/01/2025 23:13

I remember when the scandal broke, most newspapers were not reporting on it. It was Andrew Norfolk in the Times who really plugged away at bringing these terrible cases to the public's attention.

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