Don’t want MiL at my mother’s funeral

[Toomuchtrouble4me]

My elderly mother has passed. She will have a small intimate gathering of closest friends and family.
My MiL wants to come, I have said no, it’s intimate, we are grieving and surrounding her with those who loved her. Mil and mum had relationship beyond pleasantries when they met at kids birthdays etc.
MiL won’t know anybody there and I feel wants to come to gawp, as a spectator, she didn’t live my mum, she didn’t have a relationship with her and mum wasn’t keen. I really don’t want her there.
DH is sulking about it.
For context they are a large catholic family and if they’ve vaguely nodded to someone at a bus stop, they will go to the funeral. We are CofE and far more reserved, I actually think it’s rude to attend a funeral of a person you don’t have depth of feeling for. Both perspectives are valid, but as it’s My Mother - AIBU to just say back off, this is my mums day, my decision, it’s not about your mum and she’s not on the list, that’s the end of it. I’m happy to tell her she can’t come.

Looking at this a different way. Our mothers are 88 and increasingly frail. If one were to die, which may be the case before next Christmas, it would be a pipe dream to imagine the other was capable of attending the funeral, let alone to argue about it.

It sounds as though your mum and MIL are relatively more youthful. I think I would let this go rather than let it fester as a lingering resentment clouding yiur memories of your mum and yiur DH's loyalties at a Time of grief.

I am very sorry for your loss

What about anyone else who is informed about the death? It's pretty standard to let people know funeral details as well or for them to ask. And they will generally pass that on to others as well. There must be multiple people OP is going to have to tell they are not welcome when they ask. Or it is just her MIL who isn't welcome.

Are you saying you don't consider yourself a member of humanity, or are you just not a fan of John Donne?

I feel for you OP - about the loss of your mother and these funeral problems too. Our family is similar to yours about funerals. My elderly parents did go to my MIL's funeral with me to show their respects - we were invited. We sat near the back of the church but chose not to attend the wake and, after wishing the family well, I took them home. It was different to your situation in that I was divorced, but they had known her many years and were fond of her - as was I.

I was angry at my own mother's funeral during lockdown. I was really upset of course and had to support my 91-year-old father. Obviously there were some people who couldn't come, but other family members overruled my feelings and videoed the funeral which was then made available to loads of people who wouldn't have come even if restrictions hadn't been in place. I felt my grief was put on show for people I had never even met and was there forever on video. Mum would have hated it. I still feel annoyed four years later, for myself but mostly for her.

Tell your DH what you really feel, this is your mother after all, you would respect his wishes if the roles were reversed wouldn't you? If he continues to insist then you know where you are on his list of priorities.

💐for you OP.

Sorry for your loss @Toomuchtrouble4me
It's traditional in my family to attend your in-laws' funeral though I'm catching a sense as to why you are not so keen on this idea. The Ghouls.

I can see the attraction of not having a funeral time & again, to be honest.

And yy, a funeral is NOT a jolly. It's a paying of respects. I'm an atheist but brought up CofE and we don't go to town like the Catholics do. The ma in law can take a running jump, as far as I can see.

Funerals in my family tend to run on the lines of going even if we didn't know them well, as it's quite typical to attend.

However IME with friends who have had small and private funerals for their loved ones - when I have asked about the funeral, they have said that they are keeping it very small and private, but that if I want to pay my respects then they'll be sharing details of a charity for donations in lieu of flowers.

It's not difficult because you take your cue from them that you are not invited and they won't welcome unexpected visitors at the service. It would only be a problem if you are a grief vampire who must know every detail like the date, time, location, because you're planning to foist yourself on the family anyway.

Would you still attend if you knew that the deceased person and the person arranging the funeral didn't actually want to invite you to the funeral?

Normally, an in law would be close family, but not in this case, due to OP's MIL's behaviour. The majority of posters think that OP should put her own feelings aside and prioritise her MIL with whom she has no close relationship, due entirely to her MIL's behaviour. I think OP should do what she wants as she is the one that is grieving.

I'm not saying it's difficult but that OP will have to be prepared to say multiple times to multiple people that it is a small and private affair as that isn't the norm. And it might surprise a few people.

I don’t think either of you is being unreasonable.
You only want close family there, but to my catholic family friends it would be disrespectful not to attend. Neither of you is wrong, just different expectations.
Depends if you can cope with any potential fall out.

OP - just wondering because it could happen - what if an old friend/colleague of your mums turns up on the day as they have heard where and when the funeral is. Would they be turned away? Just to add i do think if you feel so strongly about your MIL not attending then she should respect that, i cant say i agree but that's not what matters here.

To all those saying how is OP going to stop people attending, other than people generally attending a church at the same time, how would other people know when the funeral is?

If someone dies, and their family arrange a small service, how would any of you how to attend if you don't know any of the details? If you get in touch with their next of kin and they say it's a private service and don't give you the details, what do you do? Call all the local crems to find out?

That's no more onerous than having to tell people she's been bereaved though - and she would be having the conversation about the funeral even if they were welcome to attend. In this case it's not. And if someone is surprised then that's fine, as long as they don't express that publicly - because to do so would be very ill mannered.

No, I wouldn't call myself a fan. I don't agree with quoting John Donne in order to minimise OP's grief and to guilt trip the OP into inviting her awful MIL.

No, but that's my point. A private service isn't the norm. I don't think anyone's going to turn up if they are told it is a private service but there may be lots of people who don't expect that. People who are notified of the death and then have to be specifically told they aren't invited, people who are told by someone else that someone they know has died but don't get the message about the private funeral so try to find out and then need to be told, etc.

It's not that people are trying to get round a private invitation, they just won't naturally know it is private unless told explicitly.

It is often announced at Church - they pray for the soul of the recently departed. Also facebook - the funeral director often makes a post explaining the events. If it's a very difficult death - for example a child, they might say family only - I've never seen attendance by invitation - makes it sound like a party.

A private service is not the norm in your experience.

There are lots of people who do have small and private funerals for their loved ones. Not everyone is the same.

I haven't read all the replies OP but I wanted to give you a huge hug and tell you that I think it's entirely right for you to grieve how you want To. It's absolutely the time to be selfish.
When my MIL (whom i loved and she loved me) died our oldest son was 1 and my husband asked if I would please stay home and look after son as he didn't want him there and didn't want to worry about him being with someone else. I did exactly as he asked, yes I would have wanted to be there but at the end of the day his feelings trumped mine by far. Xx

Sending much love OP. I lost my Mum to cancer and she was young and my DC were young and it hurts like hell. I’m also a very private person and hate people making it all about them so to speak. I also do not get on with my MiL or FiL and they have a habit of making inappropriate comments and everything is about them. However when it came to the funeral, I realised although I was hurting like hell and didn’t want people seeing me in a mess, other people also wanted to say goodbye and pay their respects. We had a small private ceremony at the crematorium which was family and my Mum’s closest friends (absolutely no in-laws) and then a memorial service in the church later on the same day which everyone was invited and that included my in-laws and my sister’s in-laws also came. Quite a few of my oldest friends came too to support me and then came back with me, and my sisters (and their oldest friends) back to the house, we had an impromptu take away with wine in the garden which my Mum would have loved.
I think what I’m trying to say is that an intimate ceremony which is kept to closest family is fine, but other people want to say goodbye too and pay their respects. And if you don’t want them at the ceremony and so can completely see that, but you might need to find some other way. Whether that is donations to a charity, separate service or something. Look after yourself - grief isn’t linear and often comes in waves and I find they hit when you least expect it.

OP isn't being elitist by only inviting people that her mother loved and who loved her. Her MIL doesn't fall into that category. It wouldn't diminish OP's grief but she has said that she wouldn't feel comfortable showing obvious displays of grief in from of her MIL so it would actually inhibit her grief. OP needs to do whatever makes her feel most comfortable. Why would she want to invite someone that her mum actually disliked just for the sake of convention.

YANBU - it might be the default position that a MiL would come to a family funeral but in your situation for reasons you've outlined you don't want her there. Your DH should be supporting you by enforcing that boundary in a kind but firm way that makes it not about her specifically (and so not a snub) - "it's only immediate family, as that's what Mary's wishes were. It's really important to Toomuchtrouble4me (and siblings?) that that's respected".

I'm sorry for your loss.

Funerals are generally public events and asking a particular person to stay away is bound to be seen as a snub which will hurt your MIL and DH and have implications into the future. It's likely there will be more people at the funeral than you expect, which will make the deliberate exclusion of one person even more pointed and hurtful.

You dismiss your DH's response as "sulking" but you're putting him in a very difficult position here. I really think the standard MN advice that a DH should support his wife against his birth family whatever the rights and wrongs of a situation is short sighted and damaging. When it's the DH expecting the DW to side with him against her family the responses are very different.

You don't have to welcome her or do anything, just explain gently or ask your DH to explain that you'll be focusing on your own grief and won't have time to spend with her.

I'm astonished at the voting and most of the comments here.

This small and private funeral was what the mum wanted. It's what her daughter wants.

How arrogant do you have to be to say that the wishes of the deceased and her chief mourner should be overridden, so that someone who disliked and was disliked by, the deceased, should have her 'right' ( which doesn't exist) to attend?

This is insane. I'm so sorry that, while grieving, you're having to read such batshit responses on here @Toomuchtrouble4me .

Funerals are only community events if the deceased and the person organising the funeral wants them to be. OP doesn't want that. She wants it to be a small, intimate event with the people that her mum loved and the people that loved her. OP's mum didn't like OP's MIL. She wouldn't want her at the funeral and OP doesn't want her at the funeral for entirely valid reasons.

You obviously disagree but this thread isn't a free pass for you to be nasty to a grieving daughter.

OP's MOTHER didn't want the MIL at her funeral! What could be more about the deceased than honouring her wishes?

What's the matter with people?