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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Should I of gotten in the car?

519 replies

CountryVic · 01/01/2025 01:16

I have a friend with 2 kids, ages 5 and 10, her 10 year old has additional needs and can be quite hard work (suspected ADHD).

When we go out together, she has to drive because of the car seat requirement for her 5 year old. Lately her 10 year old will not get out of the front seat when picking me up, I’ve had to resort to sitting in the back with the 5 year old and her car is not overly roomy in the back seat. The last time I was in the back for 1 hour 20 mins each way and it was super uncomfortable on my back. In the past when I have managed to get in the front seat before him, he has kicked the chair constantly on the drive back.

Last week I was asked if I wanted to go watch their football game, so I said yes but that I needed to sit in the front seat. I reminded him of this on Monday when I bumped into them down the street. They came to pick me up this morning for 7.45am. He was not going to get out of the front seat, no amount of telling off or bribing or threats from his mum worked, and he was really shouting and winding the window up and down, if the door was opened he would slam it, my neighbour actually called out is everything ok? So I shut the door and said I’ll drive my own car and meet you there. She was a bit put out by this but I said my backs not been that great and I don’t want to sit in the back for 45 mins and he’s clearly not going to move.

So she left, I got in my car, but then realised that I didn’t know which football oval they were playing on. I tried calling her but no answer so I sent a text saying I needed the oval name and address and set off to the area I thought it was in. 15 mins into the drive I stopped for a takeaway coffee, no text response from her, called again and no answer. So I sent another text and said I’ll have to give it a miss as not sure which oval, and I went home.

I got a message from her at 11am saying it was a shame I missed out on their great day out and next time I should be a little bit more tolerant, because I know how their son can be, and that flexibility goes a long way in a friendship. I’ve responded that from now on it just may be easier if I drive myself, and that I’ve always been accomodating to her family’s needs, but the shouting at 7.30am was just to much for me.

Should I of gotten in her car? AIBU here to say I’ll drive myself from now on, so I can avoid all the drama? It does mean we can’t catch up in the car but to be honest he’s usually talking over the top of everyone and cuts you off so it’s not like the conversation is flowing well. I do enjoy spending time with them and she says she appreciates the extra hand as we typically do kid things when her husband is not available, and I always pay for lunch or dinner for us all, and my own entry into events. My children are in their 20s now so maybe I’m less tolerant. I do value our friendship, we’re the same age but I had my kids at 25, 27 and 30 and she had hers at 37 and 42 - we’re both 48 this year.

TLDR - would you sit in the back seat of a car if a child wouldn’t move for you? Or drive yourself.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
LBFseBrom · 01/01/2025 10:46

I ut nderstand what you are saying. I have self diagnosed ADD. It was not known when I was a kid and teenager but I ticked all the boxes. I did get into awful trouble at school and ran away quite a lot, everyone thought I was lazy and disruptive, but I was never rude or unkind. I was extremely good at some subjects and obsessively interested in them - but useless at others. I was unhappy, felt out of place and was forever looking for somewhere to go.

It doesn't matter now, I am in my mid-seventies :-). I didn't do too badly in the end, had reasonably good jobs until retirement but I always knew, and still know, my limits.

It would have been dreadful had I been prescribed medication and/or hospitalised, especially back then in the dark ages, so at least I was spared that but school days were hard. Nobody understood and I was actually sent away to a boarding school for two years in an attempt to educate and settle me by force. That was a nightmare.

Things will get better for these children and I agree with those posters who find it insulting to equate ADHD with bad manners. Kids can go through awful phases and it's all too easy to pin a label on them.

BettyBardMacDonald · 01/01/2025 10:47

Vegandiva · 01/01/2025 01:22

You absolutely were not unreasonable not to have got in the car, and I wouldn’t even do anything with that bratty rude ten year old, let alone within the same vehicle. She should be apologising for not ensuring he was in the back as agreed and didn’t kick the seat! Especially since you just said also you were helping with the kids and paying for things!

This. She sounds like a user and an ineffective parent.

I would never get into her car again and would rethink their place in my life.

SkiingonKaraSea · 01/01/2025 10:51

IdylicDay · 01/01/2025 10:25

OP's 'friend' still should have apologised to her, not made it worse and berated her. With genuine ASD/ADHD, parents are usually very apologetic and very aware.

Those that aren't genuine I find are pretty shitty people not just a parents, and blame everyone else. If she was any type of parent, she would have apologised, and not blamed the OP. Especially after all the OP has done for her.

‘Genuine ADHD/ASD parents’ as you put it know their child is ADHD or ASD. They will likely have accessed support groups, read up or possibly attended ASD/ADHD specific parenting courses. If their child has ADHD they may well be medicated.

Parents awaiting assessment of ADHD are those who are finding traditional parenting techniques are not working, whose schools find these children don’t respond to usual discipline methods and can see it is not simply lacks parenting. These are generally parents at the end of their tether and often unhappy children too.

CountryVic · 01/01/2025 10:54

If you put Aussie Rules on your channel 4 for one game a week, what team would you pick? Please don’t say Collingwood 😝

re the costs, I am happy to cover hers and my lunch, and then pay for my own entry fee. She typically packs a lunchbox for the kids as they have food intolerances and the younger one has a severe nut allergy. Sometimes if she’s in town she will bring me a coffee and for my birthday she gave me a lovely bunch of flowers, so I don’t feel like the relationship if financially uneven.

The zoo pass was $100, it’s to a local wildlife park, so not a massive zoo like in a city. A lot of people buy the passes, you get a discount if you live local, it helps keep them financially viable, they do a fair bit of koala rehabilitation.

OP posts:
Marcipex · 01/01/2025 10:55

I think you are a kind and generous friend. Perhaps too generous.
Unfortunately the child is being taught that kicking off will get him his own way. Your friend is setting herself up for a very difficult time.
ADHD is not a get out of jail free card. His school, teachers, employers, are not going to go to such lengths to oblige him.

Twotribesgonna · 01/01/2025 10:56

BeLilacSloth · 01/01/2025 02:41

You can’t seriously be talking about a CHILD like that??

It’s so destructive that children are treated so deferentially. Kids need guidance. This particular child needs more guidance. So what if he is playing his mother? It doesn’t mean he’s somehow “bad”. It just means that he needs guidance.

snotathing · 01/01/2025 10:58

She should have ensured her child was in the back before collecting you. I don't think I could do days out with someone who is completely unwilling to try to manage a difficult child. His behaviour will only get worse when his parent allows him to make the rules, ADHD or not.

She shows you no respect. I couldn't be friends with her.

4forksache · 01/01/2025 10:58

Stick to your guns op. None of your responses to her have been unreasonable.

Twotribesgonna · 01/01/2025 10:59

I think you’re lovely OP and you were dead right to not get into the car. You were willing to get over it and it was nice of you to drive part of the way there. but Your friend had a strop and so didn’t tell you where to go and then she needed you for babysitting so she got over it quickly

Twotribesgonna · 01/01/2025 11:00

I also think the friend is at the end of her rope with this kid. And so you’re not seeing the best of her.

Sprogonthetyne · 01/01/2025 11:12

I completely understand why you would want to be in the front, but also understand why the situation might have been difficult for someone who is neurodiverse.

My autistic/PDA DC would be completely fine with a low key "could you hop in the back, X is bigger so needs more room" but would really struggle with what seems to have become a power struggle situation where they 'have to' move for you. The repeated reminders over days that this was going to happen and they had no control over it would only increase the anxiety, so by the time it happened they would be at fight/flight/freeze stage, with no control over that.

The unexpected change of plan (you not coming with them when they thought you would be) would then cause further distress to the already disregulated child, and then once they had processed all that, probably the self loathing would kick in that they had ruined the day because their brain wouldn't let them do the thing they needed to do (and my well have wanted to do but couldn't). Then more anxiety that you wouldn't be their friend anymore and it would be all their fault.

If it was my family I would not have got your text when we got there because we wouldn't have got there. My DC would be in no state for a football match after all that and I'd have been far to busy trying to calm them down and keep them safe to be looking at my phone.

Obviously non of that would be your fault but your friend has spent the last decade anticipating and avoiding things that might trigger a meltdown, so it's become second nature to her and she maybe forgets that it's not to other people. Personally I think your friend should have reconised that lifts weren't working anymore arranged to meet you there in advance, but hindsight is 20:20 and all that.

Hoppinggreen · 01/01/2025 11:17

If the kid can get in the back for his Dad he can get in the back for you

buttonousmaximous · 01/01/2025 11:18

Wrong to ask him to move nd kids develop routines/preferences and it can be hard to challenge so this is not a battle to have. Either sit in back or make your own way. Don't make his mums life harder because you need to get your own way.

IdgieThreadgoodeIsMyHeroine · 01/01/2025 11:21

@IdylicDay

Gosh, very wrong AND incredibly misinformed?! That's just about as wrong as it is possible to be!

You'll have to take this up with Cambridge dictionary I'm afraid, which lists 'gotten' as an exclusively US word.

Should I of gotten in the car?
IdgieThreadgoodeIsMyHeroine · 01/01/2025 11:24

CandidHedgehog · 01/01/2025 08:14

Gotten is a perfectly valid word in US and Canadian English and apparently Australian English as well (since the OP says she’s Australian).

It’s the preferred past participle of ‘get’ (used in circumstances where people in the UK would use ‘got’)

Not only that, it used to be used in the UK (and is apparently used by Shakespeare in Richard III).

Nothing like starting the New Year with a nice discussion of linguistic diversion. Happy New Year everyone.

Edited

It's not valid in Australian English; the OP has just made a mistake. I'm not having a go at her, I'm just correcting another poster who corrected her... incorrectly.

'Thou' also used to be used in the UK, but I'm sure you'd find it a bit weird if people started using it on Mumsnet.

IdgieThreadgoodeIsMyHeroine · 01/01/2025 11:25

sonjadog · 01/01/2025 08:26

Yes it is. "Gotten" is used in American English.

I will rephrase that; 'gotten' isn't a word in Australian English, which the OP speaks.

MargaretThursday · 01/01/2025 11:27

From the Op it feels like a powerplay on the Op's part. She knows the last few times he hasn't wanted to get out of the front, so she states she has to go in the front and repeated it to make sure they knew. Why didn't she say "lovely - I'll meet you there" if she knew he wouldn't want to move?

Yes, it's more comfortable in the front. Maybe that's why he wants to be in the front. He may not be able to articulate why it's more comfortable, but maybe he also doesn't want to be in discomfort on a journey he has no choice in going on.

I only realised as an adult why I always travelled badly as a child and normally ended up with a headache - it was because df hated stopping so I didn't drink on the day we travelled because I hated needing the loo and having to ask, because he always made a fuss. So I got dehydrated, which is one of my (and a lot of other people's) triggers for migraines.
I didn't know why I felt awful when travelling, just that I hated travelling. If I'd been able to put two and two together and calmly had gone to df and explained he would almost certainly have been very apologetic and made sure we stopped (probably more than necessary) but I didn't know. Just I hated journeys and I didn't know how to explain that.

@SkiingonKaraSea
Parents awaiting assessment of ADHD are those who are finding traditional parenting techniques are not working, whose schools find these children don’t respond to usual discipline methods and can see it is not simply lacks parenting. These are generally parents at the end of their tether and often unhappy children too.
This is very true. Before ds was diagnosed, there were times where we knew it was easier to arrange something round him, but if we did something that made it easier, people would say we were spoiling him and he'd always expect to get things his way.

Once he was diagnosed, (as a teen) we did have a long talk with him about it not being an excuse, but a reason that we knew we needed to sometimes make adjustments, but also he knew that he had to work harder at certain things, and that there would still be times he still needed to be able to fit in with what were asked.

For example, his discomfort in clothes meant that sometimes it was better for everyone's peace to say to him "yes, wear shorts and t-shirt" rather than insist he wore shirt, tie and trousers, which matched in with everyone else.
There might be other times when I said to him that the clothes were non-negotiable, and he would have worn the full regalia with only an eye roll.
It did mean sometimes we sounded like we were just excusing bad behaviour, but actually by not pushing on the times it could be excused it meant that firstly he would cope when it was really necessary because he knew his comfort was considered.

We also knew that if we were asking him to compromise his comfort in one way, then he may not be able to cope with other things on top.
So, for example, at MIL's funeral I said to him he could wear shorts, but I'd like him to wear a shirt. He did that without any fuss (although fil wore jeans so maybe even that wasn't necessary!) but I let him sit in the car after he'd been at the wake for about 20 minutes, because he'd reached his max on crowds (especially crowds who he'd never met before that wanted to talk to him and tell him (again) how like df he is!!), emotions and clothing!

Before his diagnosis, I'd have probably felt that he had to stay and talk, to be polite, and he'd probably have spent all the time after about 10 minutes simmering in the corner asking if we could please go.
But because he'd been able to have that break, after he'd been in the car about half an hour he, without being asked, came back in. So a bit of compromise on my part meant a much less stressful time for him and me, and that he also behaved, off his own bat, very well.

When you have a child with extra needs, it can be a case of compromising round them. And ADHD/ASD etc are comorbid with conditions that can mean they're less comfortable - hypermobility for example. Ds finds holding a pen incredibly uncomfortable. That was something I got in his report from the diagnosis. I thought he just hated writing because it was work. :)

If the son has suspected ADHD, there's a higher chance he has other comorbid conditions. With ds, I went to the GP to ask about ADHD assessment. But when they assessed him for that, they came back and said ASD looked higher so they'd assess him for that first. And only once he'd got the diagnosis for ASD did they go back and look at ADHD - which he also has.

CatsWhiskerz · 01/01/2025 11:34

I have 2 children with ND, now I know some children with ND can be like this but the majority it's just behaviour issues, you can often tell if it's stubborn teen behaviour - I quite like this lol - my kids know their place though - adults in the front

Barrenfieldoffucks · 01/01/2025 11:39

MargaretThursday · 01/01/2025 11:27

From the Op it feels like a powerplay on the Op's part. She knows the last few times he hasn't wanted to get out of the front, so she states she has to go in the front and repeated it to make sure they knew. Why didn't she say "lovely - I'll meet you there" if she knew he wouldn't want to move?

Yes, it's more comfortable in the front. Maybe that's why he wants to be in the front. He may not be able to articulate why it's more comfortable, but maybe he also doesn't want to be in discomfort on a journey he has no choice in going on.

I only realised as an adult why I always travelled badly as a child and normally ended up with a headache - it was because df hated stopping so I didn't drink on the day we travelled because I hated needing the loo and having to ask, because he always made a fuss. So I got dehydrated, which is one of my (and a lot of other people's) triggers for migraines.
I didn't know why I felt awful when travelling, just that I hated travelling. If I'd been able to put two and two together and calmly had gone to df and explained he would almost certainly have been very apologetic and made sure we stopped (probably more than necessary) but I didn't know. Just I hated journeys and I didn't know how to explain that.

@SkiingonKaraSea
Parents awaiting assessment of ADHD are those who are finding traditional parenting techniques are not working, whose schools find these children don’t respond to usual discipline methods and can see it is not simply lacks parenting. These are generally parents at the end of their tether and often unhappy children too.
This is very true. Before ds was diagnosed, there were times where we knew it was easier to arrange something round him, but if we did something that made it easier, people would say we were spoiling him and he'd always expect to get things his way.

Once he was diagnosed, (as a teen) we did have a long talk with him about it not being an excuse, but a reason that we knew we needed to sometimes make adjustments, but also he knew that he had to work harder at certain things, and that there would still be times he still needed to be able to fit in with what were asked.

For example, his discomfort in clothes meant that sometimes it was better for everyone's peace to say to him "yes, wear shorts and t-shirt" rather than insist he wore shirt, tie and trousers, which matched in with everyone else.
There might be other times when I said to him that the clothes were non-negotiable, and he would have worn the full regalia with only an eye roll.
It did mean sometimes we sounded like we were just excusing bad behaviour, but actually by not pushing on the times it could be excused it meant that firstly he would cope when it was really necessary because he knew his comfort was considered.

We also knew that if we were asking him to compromise his comfort in one way, then he may not be able to cope with other things on top.
So, for example, at MIL's funeral I said to him he could wear shorts, but I'd like him to wear a shirt. He did that without any fuss (although fil wore jeans so maybe even that wasn't necessary!) but I let him sit in the car after he'd been at the wake for about 20 minutes, because he'd reached his max on crowds (especially crowds who he'd never met before that wanted to talk to him and tell him (again) how like df he is!!), emotions and clothing!

Before his diagnosis, I'd have probably felt that he had to stay and talk, to be polite, and he'd probably have spent all the time after about 10 minutes simmering in the corner asking if we could please go.
But because he'd been able to have that break, after he'd been in the car about half an hour he, without being asked, came back in. So a bit of compromise on my part meant a much less stressful time for him and me, and that he also behaved, off his own bat, very well.

When you have a child with extra needs, it can be a case of compromising round them. And ADHD/ASD etc are comorbid with conditions that can mean they're less comfortable - hypermobility for example. Ds finds holding a pen incredibly uncomfortable. That was something I got in his report from the diagnosis. I thought he just hated writing because it was work. :)

If the son has suspected ADHD, there's a higher chance he has other comorbid conditions. With ds, I went to the GP to ask about ADHD assessment. But when they assessed him for that, they came back and said ASD looked higher so they'd assess him for that first. And only once he'd got the diagnosis for ASD did they go back and look at ADHD - which he also has.

I would agree with all of this. As his mother, the friend knows which battles are worth picking. The OP thought she knew better.

Jezabelle85 · 01/01/2025 11:41

LBFseBrom · 01/01/2025 10:46

I ut nderstand what you are saying. I have self diagnosed ADD. It was not known when I was a kid and teenager but I ticked all the boxes. I did get into awful trouble at school and ran away quite a lot, everyone thought I was lazy and disruptive, but I was never rude or unkind. I was extremely good at some subjects and obsessively interested in them - but useless at others. I was unhappy, felt out of place and was forever looking for somewhere to go.

It doesn't matter now, I am in my mid-seventies :-). I didn't do too badly in the end, had reasonably good jobs until retirement but I always knew, and still know, my limits.

It would have been dreadful had I been prescribed medication and/or hospitalised, especially back then in the dark ages, so at least I was spared that but school days were hard. Nobody understood and I was actually sent away to a boarding school for two years in an attempt to educate and settle me by force. That was a nightmare.

Things will get better for these children and I agree with those posters who find it insulting to equate ADHD with bad manners. Kids can go through awful phases and it's all too easy to pin a label on them.

Edited

Bless you.
I am sorry for your early experiences, I can only imagine how hard it was to deal with ADHD at a time when it was not fully recognised or supported.

Going through the diagnosis process with my son brought back a lot of memories from school for me and many of my struggles as a adult I can link to ADHD.

I feel like I did pretty well at school but at primary school I was always getting into trouble for fidgeting /falling off my chair and talking.
I was a people pleaser though and always wanted to make the teachers happy and proud and it broke my heart when I would get into trouble for things that i genuinely feel I had no control over.

I think for girls it is always harder to get a diagnosis, especially if you are respectful and kind and try REALLY hard not to break the rules.

My son was initially thought by the school to have ADD as he was masking his hyper and impulsive behaviours ( saved those for home 😬) out of fear of getting into trouble.
He too just wants to make his teachers happy and proud.

IdylicDay · 01/01/2025 11:43

IdgieThreadgoodeIsMyHeroine · 01/01/2025 11:25

I will rephrase that; 'gotten' isn't a word in Australian English, which the OP speaks.

As an Aussie, I can promise you that gotten most certainly IS a word in Australian English! In fact, we don't ever really say got, only gotten.

Butchyrestingface · 01/01/2025 11:44

Wait until all these gotten haters encounter the word but being used at the end of a sentence.

😱

IdylicDay · 01/01/2025 11:44

IdgieThreadgoodeIsMyHeroine · 01/01/2025 11:24

It's not valid in Australian English; the OP has just made a mistake. I'm not having a go at her, I'm just correcting another poster who corrected her... incorrectly.

'Thou' also used to be used in the UK, but I'm sure you'd find it a bit weird if people started using it on Mumsnet.

Um, yes it IS valid in Australian English. Gotten is used more in Australia than it is in America. In fact we learn 'gotten' and write it in English at school here!

IdylicDay · 01/01/2025 11:45

OP is Australian. In Australia, we say gotten. So OP is correct on that front.

Butchyrestingface · 01/01/2025 11:46

IdylicDay · 01/01/2025 11:44

Um, yes it IS valid in Australian English. Gotten is used more in Australia than it is in America. In fact we learn 'gotten' and write it in English at school here!

It's also valid in Scottish and NI English too.

All the best folk, basically. 😉