To think DP is being used by so called "friend"

[Queenjuliana]

Apologies for the long post, it takes a bit of explaining....DP has a friend who lives in Germany with his partner. DP and friend have known each other since childhood, went to school together etc. They are only in contact via social media, mainly to talk about football and reminisce about the old days. From what I can gather, the friend leads an "alternative" lifestyle. They don't have proper jobs, they smoke dope, and are self described "anarchists" ( whatever that is!) The friend's wife has recently been diagnosed with breast cancer. The friend has asked my partner to set up a Go Fund me page to raise money for her. The target is £9000. Apparently he does not want to do this himself because the money cannot be traceable to him. After lots of questioning to a very defensive DP, this is what I've managed to surmise..She is getting free health care treatment in Germany for her cancer. But due to the cancer she cannot work (cleaning job I believe) So they want the funds for living expenses. Germany of course have a sickness benefit which can be claimed but I'm assuming they haven't paid anything into the scheme as they are not eligible. So why am I resentful of this kind act my DP is doing? This friend has history of coming to DP when he needs money. DP is a soft touch, very kindhearted and an easy target. He talked him into "investing" £500 in the past to some hare brained music company he was supposedly setting up. Obviously the money was never seen again. Also, why can't the friend support his own wife? I personally can't see why he expects other people to donate to their living expenses because he hasn't bothered to get a decent job, and because they haven't paid into the health insurance scheme over there. The collection is going well and they have got to £7000. On top of this, because the money has to be untraceable, the friend has to have it in cash so DP has agreed to fly to Germany with it!! I know it's not my business but it all sounds so dodgy and underhand. I have every sympathy for her cancer diagnosis but she is getting well cared for and her prognosis is good as caught early. I'm pretty sure the friend would not be doing the same for DP if the roles were reversed. AIBU to think DP is being taken for a mug and this whole thing sounds like a scam?

Exactly this...

Germany is fab for Healthcare /general benefits... My fam are partially German

If he's not claiming, he can have the money transferred into his bank account.... Like normal people.

The only possible explanation is he's claiming SOME benefits and is wanting to hide the money to defraud German state...

Which your husband will be accessory to..

Your husband is a mug... Also the gofundme could be on his back too... If shown that folk were using it for not intended purpose.....

Repeat :HE IS A MUG...!!

I'd be getting really really in his face about this...

How much is he willing to risk to help this 'friend'....

DH needs to give his head a major serious wobble for getting involved in this in the first place. Stupid.

In the nicest way come the fuck on! This is clearly very dodgy af for some reason or other. Your partner has the right to involve himself if he's thick enough but you have the right to protect yourself. I'd be telling dp very bluntly that you won't involve yourself and that he needs to deal with any fallout and that if necessary you will leave him because that's the consequence if he fails to consider how this might affect his partner who should be a priority. I'd protect your own finances (at Gringotts in a vault with dragons if needed) as well as your DP clearly can't be trusted to make rational financial decisions.

Sounds tricky. Money has been raised - and hopefully the GoFundMe was honest in its description - eg supporting couple overseas who can’t work due to cancer treatment for the woman.
for me the tricky bit is withdrawing the money as your DP could look like beneficiary which opens him to fraud or tax liability potentially.
If he transfers it to the beneficiaries via bank system then it sounds ok. This is the part of the process I think your husband needs to be firm about and just say to his friend to open an account and then he will receive the money. Obviously though you can’t make DP but hope he sees sense. Is it worth contacting GoFundMe and explaining recipient doesn’t have a bank account and what usually happens in these situations? They may be able to advise?

I wouldn't be with a man who is thick enough and spineless enough to get involved in an obvious scam. I'd be scared he will give away our life savings to a Nigerian Prince or something

This sounds very dodgy. The money must be traceable - surely the friend/wife’s name must be on it somewhere or how would people know who the money was for, when donating?

The photos are probably not real. Who takes photos of themselves in hospital or sends blood test results to a friend (unless friend is a Dr)?

I think your dp is opening himself up for potential fraud and I know he seems very kind hearted, perhaps he’ll have time to reflect on this in prison (v extreme I know).

Seems like a lot of effort for a benefits scam.

I think they are or have been selling something and these "donations" are actually payments for the product or services.

And the amount of effort to cover their tracks probably means it is something your DP should not want to be patsie for

I’m afraid this sounds extremely dodgy and your other half is being used by this so called friend. He needs to give this so called friend a wide berth and I’d be refunding the money to those who donated. Your other half needs to wake up and smell the coffee and block this friend from his life. Oh, and I don’t believe the cancer story either.

This is so ridiculous and dodgy I don’t know where to start

your dp is an idiot, sorry

i bet the wife isn’t even ill.

The fact that your DP keeps saying he’s not doing anything illegal suggests he doesn’t want to do anything illegal. It might be worth pointing out that he probably is doing something illegal. The friend and his partner are clearly doing something illegal otherwise they would have no concern about the money being traced to them. Your partner is facilitating this. So if he is concerned about legality, he shouldn’t do this.

Germany of course have a sickness benefit which can be claimed but I'm assuming they haven't paid anything into the scheme as they are not eligible

Pretty much all of the German benefits are dependent on having contributed to the system beforehand. There are benefits that can be applied for if you haven't paid into the various schemes but they will be much lower and your financial situation will be taken into account to calculate these. If the wife does cleaning work there is a good chance she is doing it cash in hand or she is staying below the threshold required for starting to pay contributions (that used to be 400 Deutschmarks per month, not sure where it is now) and is now not covered by any of the standard benefits.
They (the friend and wife) should have a chat with someone who could help them access the benefits that they are entitled to, the Arbeiterwohlfahrt for example, has advisors that are very non-judgemental.

Will he have the cash in a briefcase that he is handcuffed to?

The crux of it. He's not half dim

Nope! Go fund me keep it, I know this because one I'd donated to got cancelled I never got a penny back.

Look, you're up against it, because he will tend to stick to what he first believed (that they are genuine and in need) (we all suffer from confirmation bias)
But I wonder if you would ask him to consider some questions, on the small possibility that his friends are not being fully above board.
First of all

• does he have any of the attributes that would make him vulnerable to being taken advantage of (too trusting, good natured etc) (has he regretted decisions he has made before)
• do his friends have any of the attributes that would make them vulnerable to being taken advantage of by others (financial difficulties, cancer) or any history of doing things that are not quite above board
• Will he Google GoFundMe Scams to fully inform himself
• Who will be liable to the platform or reported to the police if the scheme is flagged as fraudulent (GoFundMe have a refund policy in cases of fraud, if he's given the cash to them, how will he afford?)
• if not going through bank accounts, could this be a money laundering scheme (there's a post on Reddit saying people get contacted by people who offer large donations if you will give them 30% back - his friends could have been offered a percentage to set this up on the back of her cancer diagnosis)
• does he know that she definitely knows about it
• what are the tax implications (there's some info on gofundmes pages about fraud)
• a good sign that something is not right is not wanting to tell people about it, ask him to tell five people openly what he is doing including the cash suitcase and to take on board any views they have. If not, why not? Or to get advice from a fraud helpline - again, if he doesn't want to, why not (because he knows in his heart that it's dodgy)
• would he rather face the embarrassment of backing out now, or the embarrassment of being investigated and prosecuted for fraud/tax/money laundering

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12889677/The-rise-GoFundMe-scammers-bereaved-families-suffering-fresh-trauma-hand-heartless-fraudsters-trying-cash-tragedies.html

The 10k Euro limit is a red herring. That is simply the reportable / declaration limit for cash. Obtaining or carrying any amount is potentially illegal if it is being used to commit benefit fraud, facilitate tax evasion, has been obtained by misrepresentation etc. It’s not the amount that makes it illegal or problematic, it’s how it was obtained and/or what it is being used for.

Your DP is taking all the risk for none of the benefit.

I am a financial services lawyer and I wouldn’t go near this scheme.

You DH is being taken for a mug. His "mate" is a lazy, free-loading good for nothing. Benefits and health care in Germany are great. The fact that your DP is being told the money must be cash, stinks terribly. And confirms that the money is really for something other than what the GoFundMe donors have been told. Grrrr!

Look forward to seeing the details in the newspaper when your dh is prosecuted.
Will you start a go fund me for his legal fees?
That would be hilarious.

The only possible explanation is he's claiming SOME benefits and is wanting to hide the money to defraud German state...

Or this is money laundering of some kind.

OP, if he persists in going ahead, I’d be tempted to alert the border agencies, if only to protect yourself.

I've worked for a charity @Queenjuliana has your husband read the terms and conditions of go fund me. Because if one donor complains to them they will vigorously investigate and your husband will be legally responsible for every single penny.

For this reason he must talk to go fund me and if necessary return every single donation.

I think now the money is collected he should just go ahead with it. It would have been better to discuss this before the crowdfunder was set up. The 'victims' here are the friends and family who donated, and that's their choice. Presumably they know and trust the couple who are receiving the money? As unusual as all this is I can't see any problem for your DP acting as go between. If the people who donated did it willingly then it's on them. If they are mostly friends of the poor woman with cancer then it's not likely to be fraud, but just sympathy payments, perhaps by people who support the alternative lifestyle. The people donating are foolish, but it's their call what they do with the money.

Well your DP is an adult so I would just let him crack on but tell him you want no part of it and you don’t want to hear anything further about it. He’s a mug though, and this would probably change my view of him.

i am German and living in Germany and I cannot imagine that they don’t have statutory health insurance unless they are homeless and totally out of the system. Plus they would be entitled to financial help in the form of Bürgergeld, Wohngeld and so on.
My hunch is that the wife does not have cancer.

Do people know they are donating to fund their living or do they think it’s for medical treatments
I’d be careful OP
x

They are mainly leeches, just like this couple, disgusting behaviour what an awful situation.