To think DP is being used by so called "friend"

[Queenjuliana]

Apologies for the long post, it takes a bit of explaining....DP has a friend who lives in Germany with his partner. DP and friend have known each other since childhood, went to school together etc. They are only in contact via social media, mainly to talk about football and reminisce about the old days. From what I can gather, the friend leads an "alternative" lifestyle. They don't have proper jobs, they smoke dope, and are self described "anarchists" ( whatever that is!) The friend's wife has recently been diagnosed with breast cancer. The friend has asked my partner to set up a Go Fund me page to raise money for her. The target is £9000. Apparently he does not want to do this himself because the money cannot be traceable to him. After lots of questioning to a very defensive DP, this is what I've managed to surmise..She is getting free health care treatment in Germany for her cancer. But due to the cancer she cannot work (cleaning job I believe) So they want the funds for living expenses. Germany of course have a sickness benefit which can be claimed but I'm assuming they haven't paid anything into the scheme as they are not eligible. So why am I resentful of this kind act my DP is doing? This friend has history of coming to DP when he needs money. DP is a soft touch, very kindhearted and an easy target. He talked him into "investing" £500 in the past to some hare brained music company he was supposedly setting up. Obviously the money was never seen again. Also, why can't the friend support his own wife? I personally can't see why he expects other people to donate to their living expenses because he hasn't bothered to get a decent job, and because they haven't paid into the health insurance scheme over there. The collection is going well and they have got to £7000. On top of this, because the money has to be untraceable, the friend has to have it in cash so DP has agreed to fly to Germany with it!! I know it's not my business but it all sounds so dodgy and underhand. I have every sympathy for her cancer diagnosis but she is getting well cared for and her prognosis is good as caught early. I'm pretty sure the friend would not be doing the same for DP if the roles were reversed. AIBU to think DP is being taken for a mug and this whole thing sounds like a scam?

And when he gets stopped at customs and they say why are you taking 7k in cash to Germany and flying back the next day? What is he going to say?

“My friend wants me to deliver untraceable cash to him in-person, as a bank transfer would be traceable. No worries…it’s under €10k, so it’s all above board.”

Just because you don’t have to preemptively fill in the +€10k paperwork, DOES NOT exempt you from being questioned on why you’re carrying large sums of money abroad, then leaving the country the following day. He doesn’t have to fill in the forms, but border security can still pull you aside and ask questions. Having under €10k does not exempt you from the questions.

This is a bit different -in the late 1980's I worked as a teller at Wells Fargo Bank. A customer came in to deposit $9,900 US dollars. After he left the head teller told me they know he is up to no good, likely a drug dealer, and he comes in every day to deposit $9,900. She told me we never report him because it's always under $10,000. Criminals know how to circumvent such arbitrary rules.

@Queenjuliana since your partner is named as setting up the GFM on behalf of this individual then he is fiscally accountable to give the money to her. Anything else would be fraud. Not benefit fraud. Fraud, accountable to uk police since the crime is being committed in UK.
he must have proof that he gives her the money. If he doesn’t and collects cash and tries to do this anonymously then he is incredibly stupid and setting himself up for being accused of committing a crime punishable by jail time. He’s an idiot.

From the advice from HMRC website overleaf, DP has to declare it on his tax returns because it’s treated as taxable income. By law you have to declare crowdfunding income.

A gift could also affect benefits entitlement of the ultimate recipient - which may be their aim.

Also

Queenjuliana · Today 00:11
I know, you think that would compute, but he cant get it thru his skull.

Pick a lane @Queenjuliana He is either thick ("can't get it through his skull" means thick) or not.

I know which lane I am in. Mr Billy Big-Balls with a white saviour complex as the ONLY person that can help 🙄

The flying in and out in 24 hours is another red flag to security at both ends. I know a builder who went to prison for bringing tobacco back from Tenerife.

Look what happened to the postmasters.

As well as the possibility that he's involving himself in funding terrorism (remote, I think, but you can't rule it out), there's the larger risk that he's involved funding drug dealing - which also has significant legal consequences.

If this was my husband I'd be contacting GFM to tell them you think your husband is being conned claiming early Alzheimer's.

When the police come they'll confiscate phones find this thread @Queenjuliana won't be able to deny all knowledge then.

She could phone family solicitors for advice too.

@Queenjuliana This is a bit anoraky and long but I feel you should be aware:

FSMA 2000 defines financial crime as any offence involving - Fraud, dishonesty, misconduct in or misuse of information relating to a financial market or handling the proceeds of crime.

If we go with the example that the GFM page potentially has donations from criminal activity, this would be considered 'placement' (how criminal money is mixed with regular funds) and then the money is invested/reinvested in various different accounts, properties, assets or schemes, over and over again, making it hard to trace (layering) and then integration where the money ends up in ordinary/legal transactions. A GFM page can be used for the placement and then integration elements of this definition and I'm sure they have many rules/regulations in place to reduce/stop potential of Money Laundering.

If there is a strong potential that the GFM page has received proceeds of crime (individual donations from anonymous people) then you and your DH are involved and you must acknowledge the suspicion of money laundering activity. The law only requires you to report on a 'reasonable suspicion' - you do not have to KNOW; only suspect.

Acquiring - using or having possession of property which you know OR SUSPECT are the proceeds of crime
Arranging - entering into or becoming concerned in an arrangement which you KNOW or SUSPECT facilities the use of criminal property
Concealing - disguising, converting or transferring from the UK, property which is the proceeds of crime.

So your DH would be guilty of acquiring (by taking the money from the GFM page), guilty of arranging (having been instructed by his friend to do something and guilty of concealing by converting the £ to euro and transferring it out of the UK.

This is all under the proviso that the GFM donations include criminal proceeds which you do not KNOW, but you could SUSPECT.

Failing to report suspicions could be 5 years imprisonment and unlimited fines. Tipping off someone is up to 2 years imprisonment with unlimited fines (this means if your DH were to say to his friend 'I don't want to do this for you anymore because I think money laundering is involved' as he has alerted his friend that people may be aware of criminal activity)
Assisting in Money Laundering - up to 14 years imprisonment and unlimited fines.

So your DH could (if proven that the GFM page has criminal funds) get 14 years for assisting and you could get 5 years for failing to report. All because you SUSPECTED but didn't KNOW and failed to report it.

I acknowledge that all this is very hypothetical and in the scheme of things, very unlikely but you really don't want to be fucking around with Anti Money Laundering shit.

@DangerPigeon thank you for this. I will do exactly as you've suggested, that's a really good idea. 🙏I think the answers have strayed a long way from my post title..I get that people are concerned but when it gets to talk of terrorism and drug trafficking...perhaps now I'M being naive but I'm sure it's nothing like that

@projectme thanks for taking the trouble to post all that information 🙏 I agree it's not something to be fucked around with! I'm going to try one last time to make him see sense

Doesn't matter if she really has cancer. Your German friends are at the very least defrauding the German government. You will be caught up in the mess

@mildredsauce no I don't think he's gone into that amount of detail. It's just a short message saying she's got cancer and needs help with living expenses.

Unfortunately, the advice is relevant to the actual situation. This isn't about your hubby lending £50 from the family Christmas turkey fund to a ne'er do well mate down the pub you know you'll never see again, but full on money laundering and fraud (with likely drugs and possible terrorism risks) committed with full prior knowledge. If this goes ahead, and you are caught you will very likely have a life defining criminal record and jail is very likely. Most of us are holding our heads in our hands wondering what else we can say to stop you ruining your life (your partner can take his own responsibility). Google "Western Union Money Mules" to see what happens, and how well-meaning but bewildered people are still sent to jail.

@Mirabai I read that myself too, but didn't fully understand it. Don't know who they mean when they say " backer" I.e. is that the donor? Or the organiser? Bit ambiguous

@BruFord that's a good suggestion I will tell him to do that..if he ends up going

@YesThatsATurdOnTheRug Wasn't meaning to be sarcastic. It just that I know why he's doing it. He's soft hearted and loyal to his friend and genuinely wants to help. Yes he's being ridiculously naive too. Feelings of inadequacy? Possibly but he's not alone in that, far from it. I do appreciate your opinion though.

@Queenjuliana

After reading @Projectme's very informative and detailed post I think you should cover your back and report the GFM page as you suspect it is a cover for criminal activity.

@WildCats24 we are both on very low incomes ( out of choice, we decided to retire early) although that's not really relevant I know..

The backer is the donator.

From your DP’s perspective the take home is that crowdfunding income has to be declared by law and that it may be considered potentially taxable income - which is why HMRC want to have a look at it.

The fact he’s giving it to someone else is irrelevant - the account is in his name, the money is going into his bank account - if I earn money and give it to someone else I still have to pay tax on it.

HMRC only have his word for it that he isn’t using it for himself. If 10k is withdrawn in cash from his account and he has no receipts to show purchase or investment, whether domestic or business and he says it took it on a plane to Germany to give to his mate - he will have no receipt to prove that is the case.

If they ask him why his mate couldn’t set up his own crowdfunding account - how will he answer? Because my mate is trying to dodge tax or benefit laws in Germany?

@Calamitousness would a written signed receipt from the wife be proof that she received the funds?

So…DP doesn’t have deep pockets to hire a shit hot lawyer.

I missed @Calamitousness post - I covered the same ground.

They will want a bank statement proving transfer of funds.