Shared disability toilets with baby changing facilities

[MobilityCat]

Yesterday, I found myself in an embarrassing and upsetting situation when I crapped myself while waiting outside the disabled toilet. A mum was inside, chatting and cooing to her baby while changing its nappy. While I completely understand that she needed a suitable place to change her baby, I couldn’t help but wonder: why does it have to be in the one facility specifically designed for the disabled? Why can't the baby changing facilities be located in the women's toilet or have a separate dedicated room for this purpose?

I had to change by baby yesterday in the cafes toilet. It's just one large room for everyone to use. Unfortunately my baby and shit everywhere and I mean everywhere so it took me a while to sort her out, hope it wasn't me OP.

There should be baby change in the men's and the women's, AND the disabled.

I'm so sorry this happened to you.

When parents campaigned for facilities what did they get promised?

It's always about space

Putting a baby change in the ladies or men's invariably means losing a toilet cubicle space

And there are strict rules about the minimum number of WC pans per occupancy - you aren't allowed to go below that or make an existing situation worse

Therefore it's easier to put it in the accessible toilet.

Most aren't called "disabled toilets" anyway these days - they are accessible and jointly designated for baby changing use.

Not your fault OP and not the mother who was in there before you either

What did you expect the parent to do, realistically? I chat to my baby when changing his nappy, it speeds things up to distract him as otherwise he starts fussing and it makes the job harder. Sometimes nappy changes take a while.

It’s bad planning by the place you were in. I used a baby change in a disabled toilet today because DS had leaked through his nappy. I was in a big department store. It was the only baby change facility. What else should I have done?

There need to be more public toilets in general. Lots have closed down as councils can no longer afford to clean them or stop them being vandalised (sad that people do this). Additionally more unisex changing places for children so that either parent can do it and separate to disabled toilets. Hoist toilets would be better so that disabled parents have the height adjustable table in them too.

I talk to my baby while changing his nappy, I'm doing both at once and talking to him doesn't make take any longer. Trust me, no one wants to be in a public toilet any longer than they need to be.
It feels like you are blaming the mum here, but she was using the space assigned to her by the supermarket you were in. Although most supermarket toilets I know all have baby changing separate from disabled. Rather than complain on Mumsnet, complain to the head office of the supermarket and ask for separate spaces

I only know about getting a blue badge if you have 10 points or more on the mobility questions on PIP, so this probably doesn't apply to your gran, but you can apply for a blue badge if you get 10 points or more on the mobility element and that's usually by demonstrating that you cannot perform a task either a. Safely, b. Timely or c. Reliably

Because some conditions sporadically and intermittently cause problematic symptoms it can demonstrate that somebody cannot reliably perform an action like walking unaided or without regular breaks or in a median time frame, so for conditions such as arthritis, urgency, sensory sensitivities and elopement etc it's not possible to quantify these and so a person may qualify on the reliable parameter.

It sounds like you're perhaps judging not just your nan but a whole group of disabled people because they're not offering you consistency with their disability. I might have the wrong end of the stick but that is how I am perceiving your post.

If I was changing my babies nappy and some one was knocking on the door - in the disabled toilets - asking me to hurry because they were in a bad way - I’d speed up pronto because I’m not a twat

I only know about getting a blue badge if you have 10 points or more on the mobility questions on PIP,

It's 8 on moving around or 10 on planning a journey (under a specific descriptor) in England and 12 for moving around in Scotland for an automatic entitlement. I get 14 between the 2 and don't qualify. DH gets 8 on moving around and does.

Depends if OP simply asked ‘will you be long?’ Or if they said they really needed to use the loo. I’ve often had people knocking on the door of a baby change and not when it’s also the accessible toilet. Sometimes it’s elderly people who want to skip the main toilet queue by using the baby change room. Sometimes other mums who just want to check someone is actually in there.

thats down to the company designs, the asda and tescos i use have separate changing / toilets

Can you not see an issue with this?

No way am I changing a baby's nappy in a public area with strangers in close proximity, especially unknown men. Nappy changing needs a degree of privacy.

I think in an ideal world places would have a disabled toilet with a baby change, and then a normal toilet with a baby change, and then your regular mens and women’s. Unfortunately it probably
comes down to space.

You can’t remove the baby change from the disabled completely because disabled people are parents too.

Nope, no issue at all

With a parent stood in front of the changing table then nobody will be able to see anything.

How would your mum change your baby then if out alone with them if no baby change in disabled loo??

On a slightly different note yesterday I had an ‘older gentleman’ with a stick tut and shake his head when I exited the ‘disabled’ toilet. Similar response from the woman with him.

I don’t have a visible disability and have experienced this many times. However this was the first time I’ve had the confidence to respond. After asking if he was ok (‘you should know better’ and the like) I popped back in and held my (bagged ) split stoma bag up from the bin. Not the most pleasant thing to do but needed.

I politely informed him that doing this in a small cubicle was rather difficult. I didn’t stay for a reply, the 2 red faces were enough, wish I’d done this before!

There have been a surprising number of threads about disabled toilets lately 🤔 but it's given me pause to think:

I disagree that disabled people should have to share their space with able bodied people.

The changing facilities in the disabled toilets are rarely accessible for disabled parents to use them. If you can stand, then they might be but once again more often than not wheelchair users are marginalised in a space that should accomodate them.

Yes, there should be changing facilities either separately as I've seen in a few shopping centres, and if that isn't possible it should definitely be in the ladies.

What I can't force myself to agree with is that changing facilities are put in the men's. Most sexual crime is committed by men, and perhaps I'm projecting because of my own negative experiences with men as a vulnerable child who grew into a vulnerable adult, but I just feel like the risks outweigh the benefits of that. It's not a distrust of male guardians and parents although there is a topic to be discussed there, it is a distrust of any other man oggling.

So sorry OP. It is crap that they are often combined. Sometimes changing a baby's nappy can take awhile - I've had to do whole outfit changes whilst out and about before. I was always so conscious of the amount of time I was taking, especially for the (fortunately short) period of time I had 2 in nappies. So often, it is women and disabled people who are an afterthought.

I’ve been on here 11 years. There have been many many disabled toilet threads

I’m failing to see how this was the mother’s fault here?
as many other PP’s have said, let’s remember the overlap too with disabled parents of young children (who need to use disabled loo themselves AND change their baby) and those like myself who have a disabled child and need to use a ‘baby change’ even though my child is older.

for someone who spends hours and hours seemingly on mumsnet posting about how hard done by you are @MobilityCat , and for some of your posts I sympathise, but maybe it’s time to reflect and realise that other people have needs too and this isn’t a top trumps situation.

Thank you for sharing that. Eleven years later and still an unresolved problem. We campaigned for decades to have a safe space for our wheelchairs on buses, yet we miss out on it because some parents with buggies refuse to make room. I know this is a different issue, which I’ve previously posted about, but it’s just another right we fought for like being left out in the rain, dealing with inaccessible restaurants, or sitting outside disabled toilets with crap in our panties.

@MobilityCat you just seem to have countless posts about hating parents though? Ranting about them on buses (again, I sympathise but also disabled children exist too, IE young children in special needs buggies who also are entitled to the wheelchair spaces) and just the general tone of your speech IE mentioning the ‘cooing’ etc or complaining about a mother having a iPhone in front of her baby…. It’s all kind of not important. Why not get mad at the people who design the toilets/ plan the facilities? Spend this energy on campaigning rather than hating on (what I’m guessing is) other women?

I don't believe that I blamed the mother for being there, just that I had an urgent need and wondered why another option couldn’t be used. I know that I bang on about the shit that I and every other people with disabilities both visible and invisible have to deal with on a daily basis,but it's hard to be stoic and objective with your panties filled with crap.