Shared disability toilets with baby changing facilities

[MobilityCat]

Yesterday, I found myself in an embarrassing and upsetting situation when I crapped myself while waiting outside the disabled toilet. A mum was inside, chatting and cooing to her baby while changing its nappy. While I completely understand that she needed a suitable place to change her baby, I couldn’t help but wonder: why does it have to be in the one facility specifically designed for the disabled? Why can't the baby changing facilities be located in the women's toilet or have a separate dedicated room for this purpose?

@AngelAva Missing the point.

No, the point is no one did anything wrong it's just unfortunate the OP couldn't wait.

She would have had to wait if there was another disabled person using the toilet and babies had to be changed elsewhere too. It's not ableism to point out that in a shared facility in public people have to wait.

Technically you can change a baby anywhere, they don't care, they are babies

Other people might care though. Some grubby people think it is fine to change their baby in a cafe... in full view of people eating and drinking.

So If you’re in a cafe and you shouldn’t use the accessible loo where the baby change is in case a disabled person needs to use it, and you shouldn’t quickly change baby in public, where should you do it?

If the baby change is in an accessible loo, then you are doing nothing wrong by using it.
Changing a shitty nappy in view and smell range of people trying to enjoy cake... now that is unacceptable.

@AngelAva No. the point is that Mumsnetters are ableist and think anyone can and should use disabled toilets for any reason, including just because they want to. This is discussed again and again and again on thread after thread. You, like many others, are trivialising and dismissing what OP experienced when I guarantee you wouldn't think it was so trivial if you experienced it yourself. You are only doing this because she is disabled, like all the other commenters doing exactly the same thing (here and on other threads). It is a pervasive issue and MN refuse to do anything about it despite ableism being flagged up to them.

No one is saying the specific mother in question did anything wrong. Claiming that is the point of the argument (that we are saying she did) is intentional derailing from the wider issue. OP herself did not blame her.

Haha. I don't understand and have never experienced it eh?

I have shit myself in public. I have severe endometriosis in my bowel. I understand perfectly well what it feels like. I got a radar key to use the disabled toilets because I often have urgency and the queue for the ladies is agony if I'm desperate and have to wait.

I still understand I need to wait if there is someone else in the disabled toilet. There are other people other than me that need that toilet.

It's not trivial to shit yourself in public, but you can't honestly think the disabled loo should remain empty at all times because someone might have urgency. Other people need that space too. Other disabled people. Babies.

Try again!

This.

They aren't called 'immediate access toilets' they are called accessible toilets. So whether a disabled person is using the loo or a parent is then a wait will be necessary.

If incontinence is an issue then the op should use the correct continence pads.

Well personally I'm going to continue advocating for more accessible spaces rather than telling disabled people they will just have to wait.

Disability isn't a niche thing. Its a big chunk of the population. Some places can't be made accessible, so all the more important for modern large buildings like supermarkets to think about the likely users.

To me, they've identified the two most likely groups to need the loo during a supermarket shop and made them share, when they had sevdral able bodied cubicles and I bet there was no queue for the mens

@Gloriia Wow, that is cold.

Lol. I don't care about derailing the thread I'm simply disagreeing with you. What would I gain from that?

I also don't give a shit "pun intended" if you accept you are wrong in accusing me of not knowing what I'm talking about. Because you are. And that's it. It makes no difference to me if you believe that someone who has health issues could possibly understand that they are part of a society where other people need things and that it doesn't all revolve around me and my needs or not.

The point stands. It is not ableist to say that sometimes there will be a queue and you have to wait. If you can't wait, it's a huge risk to be out in public at all and you need to take measures to deal with that. I know how much it sucks to plan your life around toilet access but if that's what you have to do unfortunately that's what you have to do.

As @Gloriia said. They are disabled access toilets. Not immediate access toilets.

@AngelAva Great derailing attempt 👍

She has a point. If you have incontinence issues, and someone is in the loo, you do have to wait. The loo is not there for a named person... it is there for all.

How on earth is it derailing when I am actually talking about the topic?

Some great DARVO going on there, trying to shut people down who don't agree with you.

Agreed.

Disabled people have the right to have toilets available for them to use, they don't have the right for it to remain empty at all times.

Of course there are people who take the piss and use them because they can and like the space or don't want to queue but I don't believe there are many people in the world who see a disabled person approaching the disabled toilet and think fuck them I'll use it anyway.

@verysmellyjelly you don't want to continue discussing the topic with someone who actually understands and lives it then? You just want to accuse me of derailing for proving you wrong in your accusations and the crime of disagreeing with you?

I will point out all of my posts are about the topic at hand so are not detailing the thread at all. You're just pulling that one out the hat because you're annoyed I'm not the clueless ableist you made me out to be.

Btw I'm not embarrassed because I don't have a lack of empathy. I care about everyone in society. I think you're embarrassed for getting your accusations wrong.

Technically an adult can shit wherever they want as well, that doesn’t mean it’s any more or less socially acceptable than changing a nappy out in a cafe or the middle of a shop.
The majority of nappy wearers are not tiny newborns.

I have four kids and I hate that the baby change and disabled toilet are so often combined. I always try to change a nappy as quickly as possible because I hate the idea that there might be someone who needs the facility waiting outside. I also cooed and chatted to my babies while changing their nappies. The cooing doesn’t slow down the process. However, if someone had knocked and said they were desperate I would probably have brought my baby out half dressed. Nappy changes can take time though if there’s been leakage onto clothing or you have an uncooperative baby, I don’t think this the fault of the mother that you had to wait it’s the fault of our society that doesn’t prioritise facilities for disabled people.

Re baby changing in hand wash bit being undignified.

If you're changing a baby at a height, getting in the way of sinks and watching a toddler at the same time plus there's a pram around, you're basically taking over the whole place.

And many babies/toddlers would hate being seen. And many people would hate being confronted with the sight and smell of a poopy child.

Couldn't agree more, I've had to change my baby in a changing table next to the sinks and it was awful, several people trying to coo at her and talk to her while she was half naked made me really uncomfortable.

There is also the argument that disposable nappies make kids harder to potty train leading to them needing nappies longer and so the cycle continues. Surely getting them out of nappies as quickly as possible is the best thing to do and then there are less people needing to block up the disabled toilets
changing nappies.

What age are you expecting? Too early is associated with UTIs, constipation issues and increased daytime wetting until an older age than children who are potty trained when they show signs of readiness. Those accidents then still need changing and until a later age.

For the first 3 years of DS life this was the advice I received from HV and doctors, that if I do it before he's ready he'll be at risk of all of the above.

Then at his 3 year checkup the HV said why haven't you started potty training yet and I said oh we kept trying but he wasn't getting it and wasn't showing any signs of readiness to which she said: why are you waiting for signs of readiness, that's a myth, they don't need to wait until they're showing signs of readiness.

DS is autistic and was diagnosed at 3 and a half so even if I had tried sooner and ignored advice theres no guarantee he would have been toilet trained anyway, but the changing advice felt practically overnight.

I've been on a few ERIC webinars since for kids with autism and the advice even there is very contradictory. Always change in the bathroom so they associate the bathroom with where to go, but don't change them in the bathroom if they've got sensory issues with bathrooms, take them out of nappies completely so they learn they have to go somewhere, except if they'll only go in nappies and then do not under any circumstances force them to withhold, always be consistent and lead the charge, but always give them autonomy and be flexible if it isnt working, don't wait for signs of readiness just create a routine unless your child is PDA and then the expectation of using the bathroom might become too stressful.

It feels to me like whatever you do or don't do, you can't do right for wrong.

Sorry, I know this is a slight derail and very much a rant, and appreciate that DS is SEN and therefore the approach was always going to be a bit different, but I just feel flustered about the advice that always seems to change and at the time of its delivery always seems to be "the correct advice" until something else comes along to debunk it.