Shared disability toilets with baby changing facilities

[MobilityCat]

Yesterday, I found myself in an embarrassing and upsetting situation when I crapped myself while waiting outside the disabled toilet. A mum was inside, chatting and cooing to her baby while changing its nappy. While I completely understand that she needed a suitable place to change her baby, I couldn’t help but wonder: why does it have to be in the one facility specifically designed for the disabled? Why can't the baby changing facilities be located in the women's toilet or have a separate dedicated room for this purpose?

I do agree with this but the issue is at least in our local Asda & Morrisons, there’s no space in the female toilets (can’t speak for the males as haven’t seen inside) for any baby changing facilities, and you wouldn’t be able to get the pram in there even if there was. Most supermarkets allocate literally the bare minimum space for toilets because actually if it is purely just a shop then they don’t legally have to have customer toilets at all which would have been a much more difficult situation for OP & for everyone.

I understand why you were upset OP and I think any new build facility should have totally separate disabled toilet and baby change facilities (we encountered lots of that on holiday in Spain, only once in the UK so far). I also understand that it's not always possible in existing buildings though and honestly I'd prefer to change him in a private space than a drop down table in the general toilets, especially the male toilets when DH changes him.

I'd add that not ever have I 'taken my own sweet time' over a nappy change though. Sometimes it takes a while but I am always getting it done as fast as humanly possible, especially when the space I'm in is also an accessible toilet (which is not my choice nor fault). If cooing in an attempt to stop my baby thrashing about speeds things up then that's what I'll do.

It really doesn’t include people with pushchairs ( unless using the baby change) Stick the pram in the door of the cubicle yes it won’t shut but nobody is making you take a pram out. I know have a wheelchair and a pram. Before I became disabled I never used anything other than a regular cubicle unless changing a baby.

I suffer from crohns so I share your pain re the crapping yourself but I have to admit I love accessible toilets with a baby changing table- gives me somewhere to lay out all my stoma stuff.

It really doesn't matter. You can't ever guarantee that the loo will be free be it the women's or the disabled. Sometimes you have to wait. Old buildings don't easily accommodate more facilities and most companies don't care for the cost.

It’s sadly another sign of how little respect planners show to people with disabilities. They do the minimum to tick a box.

i remember being in a chain restaurant with ds in his wheelchair. Some sort of baby group must have been in at the same time. Ds was crying he needed a wee but we were in a queue behind 5 prams, when we asked to go first two refused. There was baby change in the ladies but that was obviously slightly tricker so they waited. Ds couldn’t wait 😢

But why change the full outfit in the toilet. The “change” was n baby change means the nappy. The clothes can be done stood up leaning over the pram or with baby on your knee.
Did it not occur to your partner to use the room for as little time as possible?

A post where an adult soiled herself because of poor planning and you say it doesn’t matter? Would it matter if it was you in that situation?

It sounds like such a distressing experience and yes, having extra toileting facilities and nappy changing facilities would be ideal. The only thing I would say is that regardless of whether it’s a very quick nappy change or a blowout that requires clothes to be changed, I would have always chatted and sang to my child, probably more so if it was taking me time to try and keep them feeling comfortable, not to annoy anyone else waiting. I’m not sure what else you can do as a parent if that’s where it’s located.

Im really sorry that happened @MobilityCat I totally agree that while we need baby changing rooms of all the places to be sacrificed or combined with, it shouldnt be the disabled/ accessible loo. I have a relative with mobility issues and bowel issues and when she needs to go, she needs to go, these spaces are vital for her independence and dignity. Equally my little one went through a very challenging phase regarding getting changed so it wasn't a quick in and out jobby. I hated being in shared rooms because I was so aware someone could need it but I couldnt easily vacate, nor should I have to.

Those things are fundamentally incompatible. They should be separate or a disabled only toilet and a more general 'accessible' toilet with more floor space for baby changing/ those who need space and then less standard cubicles preferably taken from the mens room allocation as they never have queues.

Shopping centres are the best in my experience too. My local one has separate men’s and women’s toilets, a handful of accessible toilets plus a handful of toilets which have a changing area and sink plus a loo. Another one nearby has a whole separate area of changing areas plus a few cubicles big enough for a pram. But they have the luxury of space that cafes and restaurants just do now have.

You are 100% in the right, OP, but most people on Mumsnet cannot cope with the idea that disabled toilets are for disabled people, and insist that they are for anyone who wants to waltz in there on any pretext. I totally understand that you're not blaming the mum in question as she obviously didn't design this set up, but the key issue is the lack of consideration for the needs of disabled people. Even despite our years of passionate advocacy, our needs are always expected to come last even though it's often us who are most intimately humiliated by others using our facilities.

I'm sorry you were put in this position. Thanks for posting to raise awareness in this very hostile setting.

Disabled toilets with a a video doorbell so access is only granted to those who need it (unfortunately no idea how that works for invisible disabilities) I mean that bit in brackets is pretty damn important. You can't have a video doorbell system... because it's not a 100% visual thing. And you can't expect someone to want to explain their disability before being allowed entry.

@Sirzy Of course it would matter if it was that other poster, she's only comfortable implying it doesn't matter because OP is disabled. It doesn't matter when WE are left soiled and dirty and embarrassed because we're gross anyway. That is the underlying attitude. (I know it isn't yours.)

I am so sick of the Mumsnet ableists who would never be okay with casually soiling themselves but think the impact on us is negligible.

It does matter

Exactly. Sadly it is indactive of the state of the world we live in.

when DS was a baby (and as a single mum) I always avoided using disabled toilets, I would plan ahead to places with a fold down table or even better a separate room. That was 16 years ago and before I had had the misfortune of experience the world of disability.

now I have a disabled child and relatives with stomas and I realise how much harder poor planning and selfish individuals make it for them to be able to even leave the house.

If people just took a second to think of others before themselves the world would be a much better places

@DragonFly98 As a veteran of several baby shit explosions I'm really trying to imagine a scenario in which I could change just the nappy, and then leave the toilet area and change the shit smeared clothes (which have by now smeared shit on to the clean nappy and the baby) without offending the others users of the coffee shop / wherever.

Unless I were to strip and clean the baby and then just redress him outside the cubicle which admittedly may save an 30 entire seconds or so? In that case would you also argue that a disabled person also only uses the facilities for actual toileting, and any associated change or clean up required goes on in public?

The issue here is with the business owners combining the facilities, not with any of the people who need to use the facilities. Nobody is using a toilet or changing facility for a laugh, everybody does so because they actually need to.

But this situation isn’t a “disabled toilets are for disabled people” scenario. It was a disabled & baby changing facility so both people were equally right to use it for one of its intended purposes.

This would put me off and make it even harder to access toilets. I'm autistic and I can't communicate over a weird video - even now some have buttons for speakers to talk to someone to let you in and I could never do that.

There's much more room for prams, handbags, changing gear and possibly toddlers as well as less comings and goings in those toilets which means it's much safer for all concerned. Most are available for different needs and users, they should not be exclusive. Would you be so miffed if it had been a disabled person who'd been taking up the space? Also I'm sure she wasn't in there for the good of her health, most parents chat to their babies while changing. They don't just hang out in there to blether with their child!

It’s strange how people are posting about how hard it’s to do a complete change of a baby.

imagine having to do that with an adult!!

Sorry OP that must have been very distressing. As others have said I think it's a space constraint issue. Thank you for highlighting this though, it gas certainly made me think. I have in the past used the disabled loo when taking my then 3 year old to the toilet - because I had the pram and bags (or suitcase at the airport) with me and couldn't fit into the cubicle. My son is autistic and hates going to the toilet/hates the noise of the hand dryer/hates the smell/ sometimes soils himself and needs to be changed and that is easier to do in a quiet room with more space than a small cubicle when he's thrashing about in anger or overwhelmed. But none of these things are quick. If someone knocked on the door, I'd be out ASAP. I think it highlights overall how inadequate facilities are.

Agree - and to add an adult dealing with that by themselves.

Yes they should be exclusive.

disabled people ideally should never have to wait for the only toilet they can access because of the impact of having to wait.

Sounds awful OP - but so often the disabled and baby change are shared, so what are people with small children to do?

Im v aware when using a shared facility that someone else may need it more urgently than me - but I do also need access to these facilities myself.