To be mad my folks gatecrashed xmas?

[merrychristonabike]

Me DH and our kids went to a hotel for xmas - a tradition we adopted to escape the 'where will you be at xmas?' from mum and dad every year. We've invited them and my in-laws before, but it wasn't fun as my parents were clearly put out they were sharing the time with in-laws.
On arrival on xmas eve, my parents were there to 'surprise' us and we were furious. My husband later asked them why they were there and my dad flipped, telling my husband he'd always had his suspicions about him and generally being a dick. Dad didn't wish DH merry Christmas, ignored him at dinner and left without saying goodbye to either of us,
It ruined the 3 night stay. They didn't bring the kids' gifts - I think so we will still have to go see them and I just can't face it. There's a bit of back story to their behaviour, but it's too long for here other than them being overbearing and intense. And I also just want to know AIBU? And what's your advice yo navigate this?

Just wait till your children have grown up, where would you like to be? So yes YABU

This would bother me. They weren't invited, and by turning up they forced your hand. Nothing wrong was saying something.

If it was obvious I wouldn’t have asked, I’m not a game player like my mother. What does seem to be obvious is that you are one of the mother-types being discussed on this thread.

In fact, I'm someone with a slightly different perspective from yours.
I'm certainly nothing like the witch- type people being vilified on this thread, who, for all I know, might possibly have a completely different version of events. "Recollections may differ " to quote a well- known phrase.

Just out of interest, what type are you?

I would have felt very put out. Awful behaviour on your parents part imo. And not bringing gifts for their grandchildren? Ridiculous. We are supposed to love our parents but my goodness they make it difficult at times. It makes the point where they may need care & caring for even more fraught & complicated.

I'm assuming that OP won't give her children an abusive childhood like she had.

Given her experiences with her parents, she will probably be sensible and reasonable and understand that her children may need to spend time with their in-laws over the Christmas period and she wouldn't constantly insult her children's partners.

If they decided to spend Christmas alone in a hotel, she wouldn't stalk them, book into a hotel room next door for three days and two nights without asking if it was OK and tell the hotel to put them at the table next to OP's family .

Then, after spending 3 days during Christmas week with her grown up children, she probably wouldn't have a tantrum because they wouldn't visit on another day that week.

OP's father is a scary, shouty man and her mum is his enabler. OP and her DH are nothing like this so hopefully her adult children will enjoy spending some Christmases with their parents.

If by 'the abusers' you mean her parents, of course I'm not 'on their side'. I don't even know them.
I simply think people in this sort of situation should seek professional help before take the drastic step of becoming estranged from close family, based on what I've seen in my extended family,
As it happens, I've researched the subject online at the CPTSD Foundation & their advice exactly mirrors my comments;
https://cptsdfoundation.org/2023/01/30/family-estrangement-going-no-contact/#:~:text=Perhaps%20the%20biggest%20problem%20is,for%20%E2%80%9Cbeing%20so%20cold.%E2%80%9D
It's sad there are so many posts on this thread driven by anger and resentment that sensible discussion is impossible.
I'm simply stating the obvious & spouting plain common sense.

You think being a parent gives you carte blanche to be with your adult child, spouse and GC every single Xmas without other In-laws being included?
You think you would be justified and entitled to gate-crash a Hotel stay?

You think you get to dictate to your adult child?

Really?

Explain please why you think these things are OK and how these actions will endear you to your child, their spouse, and GC?

When you end up entirely alone and your child had stopped all contact, was it worth it?

The information in the link you have provided actually supports people going no contact, and explains the grieving process that they will go through, that they will have doubts but that they will eventually heal as it was the right thing for them to do.

'Many years passed for you during the emotional abuse that caused enormous damage, and it may take years to heal from it entirely. No contact is not a quick fix, even though you will feel enormous relief because of your new empowerment and freedom.

However, the grieving process will begin once you face the reality of the situation. You will grieve for the childhood and relationship you never received from your family. It is painful to realize that your parents and perhaps other family members did not love you.

You must also remember that you will doubt your decision and question yourself every day. Going no contact creates inner conflict because going no contact is life-changing forever.

The bottom line, going no contact is painful, but you will eventually heal.'

Your posts indicate that you don't approve the advice from many posters that OP should go no contact with her parents. If you actually agree with the information in your link, that going no contact is hard, but the right thing to do and eventually people will heal, I would agree with you. But that isn't what you have previously been saying.

Perfectly put

What I have been saying is that going NC is a drastic step with far-reaching consequences and should not be undertaken lightly. Professional advice/support may help the OP to react in a more adaptive way, ie not as a victim.

Secondly, the parents may be prepared to listen to an outside professional who is expert at managing such situations while they would not be prepared to listen to their DC.

What I don't approve of is telling the OP, who is in a vulnerable situation, what to do without actually knowing the wider situation, especially the perspectives of other family members, since the consequences of going NC COULD be catastrophic for OP (as demonstrated in a previous, deleted thread).

The deleted post that you refer to was about a very specific set of circumstances where OP had gone NC with her neglectful mother but was still close to her grandmother and as her mum was the person organising the funeral, OP wasn't invited.

Possibly there could be similar repercussions for OP if she did decide to go no contact, and that is something that she would need to consider.

However, a scenario where OP's scary, shouty dad would be willing to attend therapy sessions is extremely unlikely.

the consequences of going NC COULD be catastrophic for OP (as demonstrated in a previous, deleted thread).

I read that thread and find it disturbing that what you took from it was that the OP was wrong for not keeping in touch with her abusive mother. “Stay in contact at all costs with people who treat you like shit - otherwise you might miss a funeral and it will be YOUR fault”. What a message.

I think OP has explained the wider situation. She’s detailed multiple times when she’s tried to sit down and talk with her parents - she’s either not listened to or overruled, and her father flies into a rage, shouts in temper, and ignores her for weeks. I also think that OP’s concern for her mothers’ safety at the hands of her father after these confrontations is very telling. OP’s post and updates read as a catalogue of abuse, which you are minimising here. It’s unlikely that her father would attend any kind of counselling, and as far as I can see he’s abusive. So why would you advocate attending counselling with an abuser ?

It's sad how many of us can see this.

I do appreciate everyone's comments on here. It's really interesting reading all perspectives, as that's what I was looking for.

I can see why some people are perplexed by my stance/reaction in this instance. I think that's because I haven't detailed the relationship history as it's too long and complex.

And yet, it feels weird to have my parents referred to as 'abusers' because there isn't really one particular "really bad" thing they've done and it feels a bit of a slight on them but more so on people who have been physically abused or whose parents have been really neglectful or have harmed them. But I do feel there's a lot of manipulation, a lot of expectation and a lot of living vicariously through me and looking to me to provide their happiness/life as they don't have that. I've spent the majority of my life trying to make them happy/keep the peace and give them a distraction from their unhappy marriage.

As a wife and mother I can't give them as much attention now and I think this is a huge thing for them. My mum shows no empathy when I talk about being so busy with full time job, kids, husband who works away a bit - she just says it was harder for her and makes comments like "it's ok for you in your big house" or "must be nice to have a man that makes dinner, I never had that" or tells me how stressed out SHE is living with my dad. (I have offered her help in recent times to break away, but they never will as both are completely obsessed with how things look to other people on the outside - this seems to matter more than how family members are really feeling).

Their marriage is unhappy and I've grown up walking on eggshells to try so hard not to rock the boat so they won't fall out. I've seen a lot of rows and some 'mild' violence, which isn't acceptable, but again feel like - or have been made to believe - that it isn't THAT bad.

My dad hasn't spoken to me this year; we spent NYE at my DS and I texted happy new year on NYE. My mum replied the next day, my dad read it and didn't reply. Mum did call on Friday to ask when she could see the kids and to ask what was wrong?! She seems to always 'forget' that something major and hurtful happened and can't talk about it and instead denies any knowledge of what happened.

I understand the people saying that it just needs to be talked through. I've tried this several times - explained how I see the situation and how it makes me feel and what could we do to help them and fix things and move on; this never plays out in a mature, calm and rational way. I don't think they're willing or capable of any self awareness/self reflection or to accept any bit of accountability.

Neither DF nor DM speak to their siblings, which is telling in that - they feel slighted by something (always) and can't talk it through and cut the people off then say nobody cuts them any slack or appreciated what they do for them. This is what dad's done with me now - with him not speaking to or contacting me yet this year. He'll be content to think it's all my fault ams I've driven him to this. But he's the parent here.

Sorry - too long again. But thanks for your insight.

Time for an adult conversation with your dps … Really difficult situation for you and dh but it’s time to put a stop to the situation.
Talk to your parents and tell them you either want to spend Christmas as a couple with your dc because they clearly have a problem with your dh or you would like to include both sets of parents . Take it or leave it, that’s the deal.
Your dh is your choice , and your dp’s need to understand that ,he has a right to enjoy his Christmas too . Tell your dp’s it would be wonderful to all have a happy Christmas together but their actions are the ones that have prevented that happening in the past. Do what you and dh wish to do in future and if that doesn't include your dp’s , don’t tell them where you’ll be .

You aren’t responsible for your parents happiness. The situation sounds very dysfunctional and must be extremely tiring. It’s great that you have some awareness of the dynamics at play and can hopefully help your own family from repeating some of these behaviours in future generations.
All the best

i think it is common for a lot off parents to live like yours's do, through their offspring.
can you suggest u3a to your dm?

What's u3a?

I do find it exhausting. It's been taking more and more of a toll on me - without wanting to sound pathetic - but I'm tired with it now. Thanks for your good wishes!

It's University of the Third Age:

https://www.u3a.org.uk/

Activities and learning opportunities for older people

Maintain your boundaries, try not to take on the guilt and don’t let it interfere with the positive relationships you have, esp with DH.
Grey Rock is a method that may help you.

U3a - 'university of the third age'.

An organisation for more 'mature' - well old people really- to get together and explore common interests; sports, research pursuits etc.

Best google it for the details. Sorry to use google as a verb.

I think you are very thoughtful and insightful about your parents. I think was is deemed to be abusive has changed with time. I completely relate to the pretending they don’t know what’s wrong and gaslighting! If I were you I would not try to bring my dad round, just let him ignore you and ignore him, it sounds like that could be a blessing! I recommended therapy before but that takes time, for now perhaps it’s worth thinking about the kind of relationship you are willing to have with them and writing it all down for them. If you want them to have a relationship with the kids, how you can arrange that, and what you are willing to put up with in general. Just keep reiterating it when they push the boundaries (which they will).good luck!