To not understand how this means a man can get a female passport?

[Brla]

A close friend of DH recently came out as trans. He’s had surgery abroad (FFS I think it’s called) and has set up an Instagram account with videos of the process and many, many, many outfits and make up videos. He has two sons and was married for 14 years before this.

I don’t really have an opinion as such on being trans. I think it’s likely that it’s a genuine feeling that I just can’t understand as I haven’t experienced it and don’t think it’s necessarily just a mental illness.

I don’t understand though that this person has not had his genitals removed or changed (not sure how you would express it) and yet has still got a new passport now saying F. Am I being thick for being unable to get my head around this? He still has a penis so surely that means he is male? How can he have had a passport issued as female?! Do you literally just need to apply and say you’re now presenting as female?

I really hate the “you wouldn’t ask to swap a black healthcare professional for a white one” argument. It’s not the same at all. The problem isn’t the HPC being trans - it’s that they’re male. If it’s fine to exclude regular males what makes it not okay when they have a gender identity?

it is the same argument. If you can ask for a new healthcare worker without any consequence, people would totally ask for a black/white carer when they had been sent a white/black one. This already happens. And it called out for the racism it is.

If a trans woman were sent to care for a woman who had asked for a woman, and that woman said "nope, i want a different woman" what are the odds she wouldn't be called transphobic and asked to lump it? if we allow people to reject trans women, we allow them to reject all other women too.

But if we act like grown ups and when someone asks for a woman, we send an actual woman, that door is closed. You get a woman, or no care (if you reject the woman who is sent. A woman who is not a man). that is ok by me.

How to tell if someone is male (no physical examination necessary)

Do they demand that women do whatever they say?
Do they expect women to put their interests in front of their own?
Do they become violent in word and deed when disagreed with?
Do they lecture, berate and patronise women who disagree with them?
Do they put themselves first in all circumstances?

Obviously not all men, but useful when considering the actions of those who claim to be 'living as women'

Yeah Ireland.
Fantastic record of keeping women and children safe from predatory men.

Well no because we understand the very real reasons why certain things are segregated by sex - safety, dignity, etc.

There’s no real issue with someone of a different race handling your medical care, is there? I’m sick of TRAs using people pr colour as a shield and a gotcha when it’s not the same thing at all.

Totally agree that if they just sent actual women when asked to do so then things would be a whole lot simpler, but the trans women kick off when that happens so…

Edit: I should say not all trans women would cause a fuss - some understand why women need single sex care, but too many do not!

Having his genitals removed does not make a man any more female than if he leaves them intact. It is impossible to change sex.

Being male or female is in your genes, not your jeans.

Yes we do actually. Internationally we stand up with the safest. Thanks for acknowledging our achievements.

Compared to countries where bigotry is rife women are more on danger.

Important facts to note .

When your definition of 'women' includes 'men' then all statistics become meaningless.

Seriously? You think the laundries were good for women? Easy to discount everything you say based on that.

Internationally Ireland is one of the top countries where women are safe. Google is your friend.

I clearly stated it is one of the safest countries not it is an imaginary utopia 🤦‍♀️

Funny, a lot of the bullies on the feminism board do all of this except the violence because you can't assault someone online.

Unfortunately that safety doesnt extend to women in Limerick prison who have had to deal with a number of violent trans-identified men incarcerated with them. I posted a link to a podcast on this up thread.

The comment I made is factually correct. Our country is one of the safest in the world. While being a leader in state recognition of trans individuals and their rights.

The discussion was relevant to societal level not individual.

Individual incidents are not acceptable and the law deals with them through our judicial system.

The law currently allows trans identified men to be incarcerated with women. Do you support that practice?

Again, please point out the hate, bigotry, bullying and bile, so we can all condemn it.

I'd love this to be pointed out also

I am not engaging in the usual barrage. This is not in the feminist forum.

It’s a simple enough question. If you have the courage of your convictions, why not answer? The worse you’ll get is disagreement, unlike the rape and death threats issued to women who say No to men in women’s spaces.

Just pop back in the thread it's there or across any threads that reference or indeed doesn't reference trans.

Thankfully I have reported a lot and they do get taken down. I am not scrolling back you are well able to. But as I said thankfully a lot get deleted on reporting.

Everyone can see you dodging this very reasonable question. You do know that, right?

If a trans woman were sent to care for a woman who had asked for a woman, and that woman said "nope, i want a different woman" what are the odds she wouldn't be called transphobic and asked to lump it? if we allow people to reject trans women, we allow them to reject all other women too.

No, this doesn't work.

A transwoman is not a woman, a transwoman is biologically male, always was, always will be, because humans can't change sex.

So "a different woman" and "all other women" do not apply in this situation, because a transwoman is not a type of woman.

That is not hate, it's just a fact.

I've read the thread and I can't see any hate, bigotry, bullying or bile so if you could be so kind as to point it out, that'd be a great help.

Unless of course you're just throwing around baseless smears in the hope that some stick and curious readers stop reading the measured posts pointing put the issues with allowing men to change their passports to say that they are women.

No everyone can see the usual baiting for the "gotcha" moment. 🥱

You are free to look and find them. As I have said any thread has them clearly. I am not doing something you are well able to do.

I can see the usual tactics are being employed. Has the call to arms gone out on the usual hate forums? That usually the next step. 🥱