To not understand how this means a man can get a female passport?

[Brla]

A close friend of DH recently came out as trans. He’s had surgery abroad (FFS I think it’s called) and has set up an Instagram account with videos of the process and many, many, many outfits and make up videos. He has two sons and was married for 14 years before this.

I don’t really have an opinion as such on being trans. I think it’s likely that it’s a genuine feeling that I just can’t understand as I haven’t experienced it and don’t think it’s necessarily just a mental illness.

I don’t understand though that this person has not had his genitals removed or changed (not sure how you would express it) and yet has still got a new passport now saying F. Am I being thick for being unable to get my head around this? He still has a penis so surely that means he is male? How can he have had a passport issued as female?! Do you literally just need to apply and say you’re now presenting as female?

Being transgender has absolutely zero, zip, diddly-squad to do with misogyny.

I can post videos of male people who declare they are female people and always have been.

You really seem misinformed on this topic. Or are those male people lying when they say this, in your opinion ?

Being transgender has absolutely zero, zip, diddly squad to do with misogyny.

Apart from its largely driven by men that define women as a mere feeling and not a biological reality.

No you! 😂

Apart from its largely driven by men that define women as a mere feeling and not a biological reality.

And further more are happy to invade same-sex spaces and steal women's medals in female sports.

Will you ever answer the question of if you believe the 72+ gender identities that currently exist are all legitimate @Lostcat? It would help to understand where your lines are.

its largely driven by men

what does this mean?

Yes. As I said. Trans women know what bodies they have; they know what sex they were registered at birth; they know that other people see them as male; however they also recognise/ understand/ know themselves to be women/ female. (some trans people may use one or other term- this is just a semantic choice).

Ok well I was having an interesting chat with @sanluca but if this thread is now just back to posters slinging mud at trans people and calling them misogynists and predators, I think that’s my queue to disengage again.

however they also recognise/ understand/ know themselves to be women/ female.

Again, not possible. They might wish or yearn or be under the misapprehension, but that's as far as it goes.

Ok well I was having an interesting chat with @sanluca but if this thread is now just back to posters slinging mud at trans people and calling them misogynists and predators, I think that’s my queue to disengage again

Is that a no then? Seems to me you're reluctant to answer for a reason. Is it because you don't believe all those 72+ gender identities are legitimate and are therefore transphobic and bigoted by your own standards?

Of course we're not. You can't broaden our minds to accept untruth as truth.

You've broadened yours so far your critical thinking abilities have fallen out. But you know as well as we did that a transwoman is just another man.

You've broadened yours so far your critical thinking abilities have fallen out

😂

Oh good lord what is this fixation you have for these so-called “72 gender identities”? These are just words people have come up with to describe their experience. There could be 10 words, or 110. It really is of no consequence. Nothing that needs you to get so riled up.

Oh good lord what is this fixation you have for these so-called “72 gender identities”? These are just words people have come up with to describe their experience. Nothing that needs you to get so riled up.

Is that a yes or a no to believing all are as legitimate as a MtoF or FtoM?

“no one seemed to care about trans men here.”

This is an untrue statement.

Many posters on this thread care about female people, including those with transgender identities. In making this statement, you have shown you don’t seem to understand the perspective of the people you seek to censure.

Many of us have female people with transgender identities in our daily lives. And feminists, who have been demonised by some posters on this thread centre the needs of female people in their campaigning. Because female people require sex based rights, even if they reject the sex category their body belongs to.

And speaking accurately about the outcomes of the demands of male people that negative impact female people and categorising it correctly as misogyny is not ‘hateful’. It is pointing out that the action is harmful to the collective group of female people (those of all people with a body formed around the production of large gametes).

They are neither “ legitimate” nor “illegitimate”- they are words people have used to describe their experience

They are neither “ legitimate” nor “illegitimate”- they are words people have used to describe their experience

So the same for MtoF then? Just words people use and not actual reality?

It's a very common and poorly thought out tactic of trans activists such as yourself to always try to attack from an angle using some form of women's rights when they are losing argument. You all try to make a false equivalence in the hope that women will come to obey your belief if we think we will lose more of our rights if we don't. We see you!

Abortion is an actual tangible thing! It is a real life act that can be measured. A woman either has an abortion or she doesn't. Once she has one she can't change her mind. We hope that our institutions correctly support every woman. She is not demanding other women give up their rights dignity and fairness so that she can access one

Gender identity is not tangible and nothing you have said today has persuaded us that it is. A man who has alleged knowledge that he is female one day and uses that to take away single sex spaces, sports places and jobs cannot give those private spaces and dignity back to women if he decides the next day that he is not trans. He has already violated them by his mistake or by his barefaced lie. This applies to both detransitioners and those who call themselves "gender fluid or non binary etc" because they are being allowed to identify how they want and when they want. Someone keeps asking you to assert if you believe these other 72 genders are as equal in the mind but you avoid the question. Probably because you know you will tie yourself in knots and contradict everything you have said about innate knowledge of male lady brain.

Meanwhile you disregard the actual bad experience of these detransitioners as irrelevant because it goes against the cause you wish to support.

Well … if she is female it is very much her circus.

If a man is saying he is a woman, and if the State are so much on his side that they give him an official document that agrees with the statement, all women should sit up and take notice.

I don’t believe anyone who uses the dehumanising term of ‘gender criticals’ should be trying to claim any morally superior position.

“MtoF” is a word. “Male” is a word. Female is a word. Woman is a word. Trans is a word.

Trans experience- the experience of gender / sex that is at odds with sex observed at birth, is a real and legitimate experience.

You all try to make a false equivalence in the hope that women will come to obey your belief if we think we will lose more of our rights if we don't. We see you!

bonkers.

You used the analogy

Not me!

Trans experience- the experience of gender / sex that is at odds with sex observed at birth, is a real and legitimate experience.

So for eg an admansgender individual was born with an identity at odds with their sex? Same for gender fluid? But yet those are not sexes unlike male or female?