To not understand how this means a man can get a female passport?

[Brla]

A close friend of DH recently came out as trans. He’s had surgery abroad (FFS I think it’s called) and has set up an Instagram account with videos of the process and many, many, many outfits and make up videos. He has two sons and was married for 14 years before this.

I don’t really have an opinion as such on being trans. I think it’s likely that it’s a genuine feeling that I just can’t understand as I haven’t experienced it and don’t think it’s necessarily just a mental illness.

I don’t understand though that this person has not had his genitals removed or changed (not sure how you would express it) and yet has still got a new passport now saying F. Am I being thick for being unable to get my head around this? He still has a penis so surely that means he is male? How can he have had a passport issued as female?! Do you literally just need to apply and say you’re now presenting as female?

Indoctrine= changing minds to align with beliefs

Authentic engagement. Curiosity. Points of mutual understanding.

So make some substantial points of your own then that people can engage with instead of standing behind lostcat and sniping at other posters.

At least lostcat has put herself out there.

All of which you got from us

You have plenty of engagement
We asked lots of questions and weren't satisfied with your responses.

We questioned different angles and were left with more questions.

We agreed that some men act feminine and THINK they are women. We pointed out clearly that it doesn't make them actual women.

You refused to mutually accept this and you've also yet to explain how and why sex and the sexed body must be ignored at the will of men by placing feelings of one party in the room above all others in the room...some of whom have lied about their gender feelings and some of whom have changed their mind.

Numerous questions asked and ignored. Please feel free and explain how men become women. Crack on.

I think you've been more influential than you could ever know 😉

All of which you got from us

lol

Not once has anyone ever been able to explain at what point a man becomes a woman. Apparently it is at the point they know in their heads that they are. Super.

Are you here to have your mind broadened and learn new insights?

This barely needs pointing out, does it?

No, it's not women's 'circus'; not, that is, until gender ideology starts encroaching on our spaces, sports and medical discourse. There's an old phrase that goes 'your right to swing your fist ends where my nose starts'.

If it's impossible to define what a woman is. then it's impossible to maintain the boundaries - whether legal or culturally-contractural - which protect the oppressed sex group from that of the oppressor.

Males are - have always been - the oppressor. It's one thing to engage in whatever form of self-presentation people wish; it's quite another to falsify legal documents and thereby require for yourself all the legal rights and protections afforded to the non-dominant group.

And it is a falsification. Humans are a dimorphic species. It is physically and anatomically impossible to 'change sex'.

1. You don't need a gender recognition certificate to change the sex marker on your passport.
2. There is no such thing as "living as a woman".

Did you explain what you think a woman is?

Perfect example of the opposite of these things

Points of mutual understanding

I’m afraid I could find no more points of mutual understanding with somebody who’s swallowed the trans narrative than I could with a flat-earther. Both utterly unscientific, un-evidenced rubbish, I’m afraid.

Plus, you haven’t been able to define or explain your key points, so why expect to reach mutual understanding?

I have put myself out there countless times and received the exact same treatment as @Lostcat

No more thanks.

Ha! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Just as we are the sex who, statistically speaking, are solely responsible for the vast number of assaults (particularly sexual assaults)?

Ouch, my ribs. 😂😂😂😂😂😂

I’m afraid I could find no more points of mutual understanding with somebody who’s swallowed the trans narrative than I could with a flat-earther.

right.

“swallowed the trans narrative*. So being trans is just a narrative now?

To recap

either someone can change sex or they can’t

there is no evidence at all that anyone can physically change sex

how people present is up to them but sometimes sex matters eg in single sex rape support groups, refuges, prisons, sports

no evidence at all has been provided as to why we should ignore sex in particular circumstances

Of course it is.

What is it supposed to mean to the rest of us?

I beg to differ.

How are we supposed to meaningfully engage with someone who claims to believe that a trans woman is a woman but refuses to explain what they believe a woman is?

That's literally the very first hurdle towards mutual understanding and the other side shies away from it.

We can explain what we believe a woman is.

You refuse to even try.

So how are we supposed to reach this mutual understanding?

It's like we're saying, "It's a type of dairy product commonly eaten with crackers, how can you possibly think this white powdery stuff qualifies" and you're refusing to say that you think it's actually a type of soft limestone.

If you described what it is you think a woman is then perhaps we would come to the conclusion that we are actually describing two completely different things and so it might be helpful if we had two different words.

Or perhaps the truth is that you know perfectly well that chalk isn't cheese and just don't want to admit it.

What else can it be? There is no evodence it’s anything else. Of course, do feel free to provide some if you disagree.

@Lostcat , let's try again to find common ground.

Sex and gender are not the same thing. Agree?
The starting point of being a transwoman is that you have to be born male. Agree?
Sometimes in certain situations sex matters. Like for example healthcare and sports. Agree?

Lets see if we can define some starting points. If you still ignore this, then I know you are not really interested in a discussion and I will leave it.

The treatment of...asking questions?

Crikey.

Can you give us any examples of any time a persons sex is more relevant to the situation than a person's gender identity?

Sex and gender are not the same thing. Agree?

Thats a really tricky one to start with-*
im going to go with the jury is out here .

The starting point of being a transwoman is that you have to be born male.
You have to be registered male at birth yes.

Sometimes in certain situations sex matters. Like for example healthcare
yes absolutely,
sports- not so sure,