To not understand how this means a man can get a female passport?

[Brla]

A close friend of DH recently came out as trans. He’s had surgery abroad (FFS I think it’s called) and has set up an Instagram account with videos of the process and many, many, many outfits and make up videos. He has two sons and was married for 14 years before this.

I don’t really have an opinion as such on being trans. I think it’s likely that it’s a genuine feeling that I just can’t understand as I haven’t experienced it and don’t think it’s necessarily just a mental illness.

I don’t understand though that this person has not had his genitals removed or changed (not sure how you would express it) and yet has still got a new passport now saying F. Am I being thick for being unable to get my head around this? He still has a penis so surely that means he is male? How can he have had a passport issued as female?! Do you literally just need to apply and say you’re now presenting as female?

It’s pointing out that all people are doing is continuing to deny what it is to be trans.

A trans person is someone who recognises/ understands / knows themself to be other than the sex they were identified at birth. This is what it is to be trans.

You know you are a woman. A trans woman knows she is a woman. Yes your bodies are different, your experiences are different, your sex observed at birth is different, but that knowing of self as a woman/ as female is what you have in common.

Anyway. There’s no point just saying the same thing over and over again,

Yep people keep replying to me so keep getting sucked back in. Feel free not to talk to me if you want me to go away.

Yep. It's always a multi person pile on too where they rapidly quick fire multiple questions a minute, more than one could ever answer, accuse them of avoiding the questions when there's just too many to answer, and when you do answer, twist your words into something you absolutely didn't say. Then accuse you of hating women or something else ridiculous and untrue.

Every. Single. Thread.

And it's always the same posters. You see them all back slapping together in the feminism sex and gender board. A couple of days a week they take a day trip to AIBU for a pile on whenever there's a sniff of a transgender related thread. It's been happening for months now.

❤️

this is exactly how it is.

Surely at some point one of you could just explain in simple terms how a man changes into a woman by just thinking he is and put us all out of our misery?

Obviously not.

It's a biology/psychology/sociology based phenomenon.

Unless you're going to try to claim god made diseases and gay people and whatever else is a deviation from the hetero normative human experience.

You know the option exists to turn off your phone or shut your laptop lid, right? You can mute notifications as well. No need to get 'sucked back in'.

No one is denying what it is to be trans! Jesus wept.
I don't deny that flat earthers or anorexics are what they say they are either.
It still does not change clear, observable, scientific fact.
They are wrong.
No one wishes them any ill, hatred or unkindness.
It's just not true.

That's not true, many posters on Mumsnet wish them hatred and unkindness.

A trans person is someone who recognises/ understands / knows themself to be other than the sex they were identified at birth. This is what it is to be trans.

Is this the same for all the other 72+ genders? Or are we still ignoring those?

Do you have an evidence for that accusation?

To quote LostCat, who you evidently agree with: "They know their bodies are different to yours, they know that they were registered male at birth, they know that other people see them as male. But yet, in spite of all these things, they know that they are a woman."

How does this womanness get into a male body?

God it's so annoying that people keep calling transgenderism a religion.
You need a deity or some belief in a greater power for it to be a religion!!

It is a collective, non-provable belief system, so has that in common with religion.

Alternatively, interesting parallels with the glass delusion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_delusion

👆🏻

Proof?
There's no unkindness on this thread.
Just the refusal to accept statements that are scientifically untrue. That's not unkind.

But I know it’s what people like to do on these threads- attack the person because they don’t care to listen to what they have to say.

No-one has attacked your personally, only your arguments.

Disagreement isn't unkindness or hatred.

@Calliecarpa was definitely engaging in a baseless ad hominem attack.
Now she’s trying to bully me off the thread.

Lostcat, how do transwomen "know" they are women?

We don't "just know", we have the evidence that we are female.

How do they "know"? What evidence do they have? Can you conceive that they might be mistaken?

LOL.

You seemed to want to leave, and I was merely suggesting that you have your own agency to do so whenever you wish.

"was definitely engaging in a baseless ad hominem attack.
Now she’s trying to bully me off the thread."

She was definitely referring to your engagement style on this thread specifically.

All of the exceptionally rude things that have been said about trans people ad nauseum on mumsnet aside, denying someone else’s reality is definitely something much worse than “unkindness”

What rude things?

what made you think I needed you to do that?

All of the exceptionally rude things that have been said about trans people ad nauseum on mumsnet aside, denying someone else’s reality is definitely something much worse than “unkindness”

People don't get to have their own reality that is at odds with material reality, though. Not agreeing with something patently false is not unkindness.