To not understand how this means a man can get a female passport?

[Brla]

A close friend of DH recently came out as trans. He’s had surgery abroad (FFS I think it’s called) and has set up an Instagram account with videos of the process and many, many, many outfits and make up videos. He has two sons and was married for 14 years before this.

I don’t really have an opinion as such on being trans. I think it’s likely that it’s a genuine feeling that I just can’t understand as I haven’t experienced it and don’t think it’s necessarily just a mental illness.

I don’t understand though that this person has not had his genitals removed or changed (not sure how you would express it) and yet has still got a new passport now saying F. Am I being thick for being unable to get my head around this? He still has a penis so surely that means he is male? How can he have had a passport issued as female?! Do you literally just need to apply and say you’re now presenting as female?

Like denying the reality of women's lives?

I for one would love one of you to stay and explain how men change into women even though they always were women.

OK, as you seem to have Last Word Syndrome, feel free to reply to this, I won't respond to you, and you can have what's so important to you.

so, I agree with @AngelAva that transgenderists are not following a religion. I happen to believe in a deity, but I know that I can’t prove their existence to you (unless I was a miracle working saint, and even that could be met with a lot of cynicism). On the other hand, you as a non believer can’t prove to me that my belief is unfounded. You can say that my ‘Evidence’ doesn’t convince you, but It can still convince me….and vice versa.

However, I can ‘prove’ to most people in the world that you are a man or a woman. Usually by observation, as per @JHound airport tales. Further, by the evidence of sexual maturity and its consequences, as in the OP’s friend’s uncontested role as the father of children, not adoptive or presumed, just actual, provable by dna testing. Finally, Qualified staff could look at your dna and at your chromosomes and in a blind test, any competent practioner would come to the same conclusion as any other.

So to me it is not a ‘religion’ because its main premise is susceptible to disproof on several different levels. It’s certainly a belief system, though.

Ermm off the top of my head,

Calling trans people: “mentally ill, “deluded” , “sexual perverts , people engaged in pretence, butchered, repeatedly misgendering trans people, insisting (which is false) that no trans people ever “pass”, trivialising / minimising their experience of gender, degrading descriptors of genitals …. Just off the top of my head…

👍🏻

Oh dismissing/ trivialising trans experience / gender dysphoria as “having feels” - that’s a particularly nasty one that pops up a lot.

As a fellow faith believer, I agree with this.

Oh dismissing/ trivialising trans experience / gender dysphoria as “having feels” - that’s a particularly nasty one that pops up a lot.

But the trans experience is based in feeling, not fact. That's not nasty or rude.

"A trans person is someone who recognises/ understands / knows themself to be other than the sex they were identified at birth"

That requires a different definition of sex, surely? If they have a penis they must know they are male by sex.

You don’t think saying things like: “oh because of men’s feeeeeels” is nasty or mocking? Sure , sure.

How can men pretending to be women and reducing us to womanface not be women’s ‘circus’??

I find the idea that a man can think himself into becoming a woman both offensive and mocking.

You don’t think saying things like: “oh because of men’s feeeeeels” is nasty or mocking? Sure , sure.

I mean I don't exactly find defining womanhood as a male feeling particulaly non-insulting, either.

It’s hard not to get tied up in the semantics of it all.

But yes, trans women know that they have a penis. They understand their sex as observed / assigned at birth etc.
But they see, recognise, understand/ know themselves to be female.

That just is what it is to be trans, I know it makes little sense to someone who isn’t trans because we just can’t imagine what that experience is like or what it means, but it is what it is.

But your feelings don't matter remember? It's only men's feelings that count

I find the idea that a man can think himself into becoming a woman both offensive and mocking.

you find the idea of trans people offensive?

'they know that they are a woman.'

Is it possible to know something that is not true?

you find the idea of trans people offensive?

You find the idea that I find the idea that a man can think himself into becoming a woman offensive, offensive?

edit:all got messed up but you can work out what I mean I’m sure

You cannot know yourself to be female if you aren't female.
You can only know what you think it is to be female.

I find your ideas and comments about trans experience offensive yes.

This needs to be repeated over and over.

They might not ‘feel’ like a male person, but they are. And they are only ever associating their ‘feelings’ as being female because that is the only option because they don’t feel ‘male’.

It is NOT that they experience anything as a female at all. Only ever as a male who misogynistically has stated in their mind that ‘this must be how being female feels’. When it is most certainly not.

Why should their ‘feelings’ be affirmed by society at all?

But you can't say they understand their sex at birth because sex by definition is not assigned or observed it is a reality of a human being all through their lives.

It makes little sense, not because someone isn't trans but because it makes no sense. Sex is not a feeling, sex is a reality, it's in every chromosome in our body.

Trans people may not want to be their sex but they are their sex. it's not a choice.

Because this is a lie, enforced by gouverning bodies.
It creates a ripple in the very fabric of society. It means that individuals can now warp reality to match their feelings, and expect other people and instirutions to get on board with it.

Trans people may not want to be their sex but they are their sex.

But it’s not that they don’t “want” to be their sex. That isn’t the psychological mechanism. It’s much more fundamental than that- it’s a recognition- an understanding of self.