To not understand how this means a man can get a female passport?

[Brla]

A close friend of DH recently came out as trans. He’s had surgery abroad (FFS I think it’s called) and has set up an Instagram account with videos of the process and many, many, many outfits and make up videos. He has two sons and was married for 14 years before this.

I don’t really have an opinion as such on being trans. I think it’s likely that it’s a genuine feeling that I just can’t understand as I haven’t experienced it and don’t think it’s necessarily just a mental illness.

I don’t understand though that this person has not had his genitals removed or changed (not sure how you would express it) and yet has still got a new passport now saying F. Am I being thick for being unable to get my head around this? He still has a penis so surely that means he is male? How can he have had a passport issued as female?! Do you literally just need to apply and say you’re now presenting as female?

But the trans experience is the knowing that they are different sex. That is the reality of what it is to be trans; so the distinction you are trying to draw makes no sense.

Trans people do not deny the reality of their bodies; they do not deny how others see them; they do not deny how they were registered at birth, yet in spite of those things they know their sex to be different . This is what it is to be trans.

They don’t “say” they are trans, they “are” trans.

Sorry, my phone died and the thread moved on.

No not particularly. I think it's perfectly plausible that the OP didnt know that you could change the sex marker on a passport. It seems that others on the thread didn't know that either.

Trans people do not deny the reality of their bodies; they do not deny how others see them; they do not deny how they were registered at birth, yet in spite of those things they know their sex to be different . This is what it is to be trans.

So they know they are male, they know they are not the same sex as women, they know women don't accept them as women.

No. They do not know they are a different sex. They are NOT a different sex. They're not. They are the sex they were born and that cannot change. That is a literal fact. They can believe they should have been the opposite sex, or wish to be the opposite sex,or believe they are acting out being the opposite sex but they are not the opposite sex.

Again I'll say, you are trying to make a fact a feeling. Your sex is a fact, it is fixed, it cannot be changed, it is not a choice an identity or a belief.

How do you explain a male having children and then deciding in middle age he is now a woman? At what point is he 'trans'?

But the trans experience is the knowing that they are different sex. That is the reality of what it is to be trans; so the distinction you are trying to draw makes no sense.

Again - they do not know this. They cannot know this. They only believe it.

You're attempting to claim a belief as some sort of objective reality. The whole movement is. And I'll say again - women is not a feeling in a man's head.

Anorexics also "know" that they're fat or overweight.
But they're not. They think they are.
We help them not by affirming that they're fat, but by giving them targeted support to get better and see their bodies in reality.

And for the love of god please stop with the "trans people exist" utter nonsense. We know they do.
That's not up for debate.
What is being challenged is what they are claiming. We know they feel like they have been born in the wrong body, therefore: trans.
But they categorically haven't.

No. They do not know they are a different sex

denial.. refusal..

And yet this is what it is to be trans: nothing more, nothing less.

And yet this is what it is to be trans: nothing more, nothing less.

I'm so glad you keep posting this. It really does make it plain for all to see.

They know their bodies are different to yours, they know that they were registered male at birth, they know that other people see them as male. But yet, in spite of all these things, they know that they are a woman.

Nobody can really know what it's like to be something they are not. Do you know how it feels to be Japanese (assuming you're not), or 6 years old, or a giraffe? No. So how would a man know what being a woman feels like?

There's no such thing as being born in the wrong body. We are our bodies, and our brains and hormones are part of our bodies. If anything has created the desire to be the opposite sex, it is no doubt our gendered society, still trying to define people as feminine and masculine by their personality traits and clothing preferences!

Well yes I will deny something which is untrue. Honestly it's like trying to have a conversation with someone who think the earth is flat. You can say it's not, you can show them photos from space showing that it's not,and they just say you're denying their reality.

Men are not really women. Men cannot change sex or be the wrong sex. Sex is not optional and it's not changeable. These are literal facts.

I’m not sure that’s how the psychology of being anorexic works - but I don’t know enough about it.

But either way it’s not a reasonable comparator - for many, many reasons.

Let me just focus on the most important- being anorexic is incompatible with life- that’s why we struggle to cure it- because it kills, people need to eat to live.

Being trans is not incompatible with life. There is nothing inherently wrong with being trans. Trans people can live happy, full, fulfilled and healthy lives, if they are only allowed to be themselves.

meanwhile there is no evidence that attempting to “cure” someone of being trans is in any way effective, and it also can cause huge amounts of harm and pain.

It’s like reparative therapy for being gay. It doesn’t work and it’s not necessary.

Honestly it's like trying to have a conversation with someone who think the earth is flat.

It's exactly the same on this thread. One side is backed by physical evidence, the other by nothing but the beliefs in their heads, yet you have one person diligently insisting that the two are somehow equivalent.

Trans people can live happy, full, fulfilled and healthy lives, if they are only allowed to be themselves.

They can crack on, but if they're men, they need to stay out of women's spaces.

Nobody can really know

there’s no such thing

it is no doubt our gendered society

denial. Refusal.

Trans people are not a belief in my head.

denial. Refusal

Same could be said about you and material reality.

There is nothing inherently wrong with being trans. Trans people can live happy, full, fulfilled and healthy lives, if they are only allowed to be themselves.

Trans people can 'be themselves ', as in call themselves what they like, wear what they like, fancy who they like, spend their time doing what they like. What they can't do, is change sex. What they can't do, is trying to force me to believe what they believe. Because it is a belief, just like any other belief.

You don't seem able to explain how a man who has had kids is suddenly a woman just because he thinks it is so. Or why we have to believe him.

i do wonder if Lostcat is in fact a deep state gender critical double agent. Every post does our work for us. Operation letthemspeak

No, transpeople exist in the world but the idea that transpeople are really the sex they're not absolutely is a belief in your head.

"Trans people are not a belief in my head."

Trans people believing they are in fact the opposite sex is a belief in their heads, and yours.

yet in spite of those things they know their sex to be different

What do they think sex is?

Eh? well that depends doesn't it, on whether they are a trans man, a trans woman, or non binary.