To not understand how this means a man can get a female passport?

[Brla]

A close friend of DH recently came out as trans. He’s had surgery abroad (FFS I think it’s called) and has set up an Instagram account with videos of the process and many, many, many outfits and make up videos. He has two sons and was married for 14 years before this.

I don’t really have an opinion as such on being trans. I think it’s likely that it’s a genuine feeling that I just can’t understand as I haven’t experienced it and don’t think it’s necessarily just a mental illness.

I don’t understand though that this person has not had his genitals removed or changed (not sure how you would express it) and yet has still got a new passport now saying F. Am I being thick for being unable to get my head around this? He still has a penis so surely that means he is male? How can he have had a passport issued as female?! Do you literally just need to apply and say you’re now presenting as female?

Not sure why you believe this or why you think its funny 🥴

Because a human can only be male or female.

There is some evidence of brain differences between straight males and gay males, it's not conclusive. You can certainly measure an individual's arousal when shown images of people of their own sex or the opposite sex, and you can certainly measure their sexual behaviour. As regards depression, again you can measure an individual's affect and mood using a number of different validated assessment tools. What validated scientific measures are there for transness?

So wrong. Makes me so sad. When is this nonsense going to change?

here is some evidence of brain differences between straight males and gay males

as with brain research related to being trans the science is in its infancy.

You can certainly measure an individual's arousal when shown images of people of their own sex or the opposite sex

dear lord this is not proof of a person’s sexual orientation.

and you can certainly measure their sexual behaviour.

you can also measure trans people’s gender-related behaviour.

As regards depression, again you can measure an individual's affect and mood using a number of different validated assessment tools.

there are validated scientific and medical assessment tools for measuring gender dysphoria as well!

Not sure why you believe this or why you think its funny 🥴

Becaue I've witnessed and read plenty of testimony from trans stating the born in the wrong body as fact. There have been plenty of articles etc pushing that angle.

I find the back peddling about the utter claptrap previously spouted amusing.

ok

"How do you “prove” sexuality? Or depression? Or do you think these things are just “beliefs” too?"

Sexual orientation is revealed to an individual through sexual attraction. It is identified through arousal, which manifests in physical sensations.

Depression manifests in physical and physiological symptoms. These include things like changes in engagement in self care activities and reduction in enjoyment of activities which, prior to becoming depressed, delivered joy.

Serano is male who identifies as a woman.and a lesbian, and an expert on crustaceans. If we're paying attention to science, humans aren't crustaceans. HTH.

What is "gender"

Stonewall, the WHO and the UK Government all give different answers...

Because a human can only be male or female

yes i know…pity the passport office doesn’t seem to know

If trans isn't about being literally born in the wrong body then its simply a mental health issue. The same as a person that believes they should've been born with no legs and wishes to have them amputated.

We should treat the mind, not butcher the body.

There is no place for these sorts of wild projections or judgements.

there Is nothing wrong with being trans and there is nothing wrong with trans bodies.

How does one measure 'gender-related behaviour '? What is gender related behaviour, do you mean how much a person conforms to the stereotypes associated with their sex? I've got short hair and I'm wearing trousers and no make up - does that make me a trans man?

And it's been made abundantly clear that a person doesn't need to have gender dysphoria to be trans, so whether you can measure gender dysphoria is irrelevant. You can be trans have have none, or not trans and have some, it's not relevant.

What is a 'trans body'?

What is a trans body? Can you define it so we know when we have one or meet one?

there Is nothing wrong with being trans and there is nothing wrong with trans bodies

You can’t define what trans is or what a trans body is so I've no clue what you mean.

There is no place for your wild projections or judgements.

Oh get over yourself and stop imaging things that aren't happening.

Quite obviously I mean 'changed sex'.

And it's been made abundantly clear that a person doesn't need to have gender dysphoria to be trans, so whether you can measure gender dysphoria is irrelevant.

Of course it’s not irrelevant.
Gender dysphoria is a very common “symtom” trans people experience, and it is this diagnosis - of gender dysphoria - that is a requirement for access to medical services.

Gender related behaviour-
Having short hair and wearing trousers wouldn’t be a symptom of being trans no. Insisting that you were a man, changing your name/ pronouns, becoming very distressed when people referred to you as being female, etc. these are measurable behaviours that would indicate transness,

What do you mean by “changed sex”?

Are you not aware of the protests? the UK Womens March? Taking place in major towns and cities in January?

You know...the UK Womens March? That's inclusive of transwomen...cos you know TWAW after all...🙄😑

Insisting that you were a man, changing your name/ pronouns, becoming very distressed when people referred to you as being female, etc. these are measurable behaviours that would indicate transness,

Insisting that you were the son of God, changing your name/ pronouns to Jesus/God, becoming very distressed when people referred to you as being only human, etc. these are measurable behaviours that would indicate being the son of God.

It’s not a technical term. I was referring to the bodies of trans people who have undergone gender affirming medical interventions - someone referred to these interventions as “butchering” the body- implying these bodies are “butchered”, which obviously has very negative , violent connotations. So I responded by emphasising that there is nothing wrong with these trans bodies, and there’s no need for these sorts of wild projections and value judgements,

I think it is part of human development and behaviour to have an identity (a sense of who you are and what makes you different and the same as others). Identities are multifaceted and comprise of different elements. For some people, gendered ideas significant inform their identity. For others, gendered ideas play no part in their identity. Therefore, the concept of 'gender identity' as a stand alone and universal feature of human experience is overstated. The reality is, for some people, their sense of self is dominated by ideas about gender.

Gendered ideas are inextricably linked to sex - this is the definition of gender. However, sex is a material phenomenon- not an identity. This means you can't identify in and out of your natal sex.

We don't have sufficiently precise and widespread language to differentiate between sex and gender identity and there are groups who are determined to keep it this way. They want to blur distinctions between males and females and to amplify identity based categories.

I get it - you think being trans is make-believe.

The thing is being trans isn’t make-believe. It’s a real thing.it’s really a problem that you believe this. It’s like when people used to think that being gay or left handed was make believe (for example)! It’s nothing more than a very pedestrian type of prejudice.