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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to want to see my Dad without my (awful) stepmum sometimes?

214 replies

LoveIsAVerb · 27/12/2024 19:19

Hi all. I'm new here, go gentle!

Around this time of year, I have my annual argument with my stepmother. It was pretty low-key this year: at our annual pre-Christmas get together, she made a few snarky comments; I told her to pipe down after the final snarky comment; and she apologised. (More detail on that later!)

But it's raised a perennial issue: my stepmother and I fundamentally do not get on, and I would really like to see my Dad occasionally without her being there. But this never happens. Around this time every year, following my annual tiff with my stepmum, my sister (42, two kids) and I (40, no kids) have a word with my Dad - just "hey Dad, it would be really nice to hang out together without stepmum being there". After that, we usually have ONE walk together, he's a bit awkward about the whole thing, and then it just goes back to normal, i.e. her always being there.

It's not just that she's always there when we see him, either. Even when we call his mobile, he always puts us on speaker so that she can be involved in the conversation. We hardly ever even get to text privately; he routes all texts through the group family chat, which includes him, her, my sister and I, and my stepsisters.

Dad and stepmum have been married for 20-odd years. He left my mother for her (he was having an affair with her). I'm not particularly arsed about that tbh; mum also had affairs. I'd like to state upfront that I haven't put her into some "Evil Stepmother" trope; I'm happy that he's found someone. It's not the "stepmum" factor; it's specifically about HER, as an individual. We have wildly different values. She comes from Old Money and is, frankly, a massive snob. (My Dad came from nothing, for context, but made pretty good money by working his way up in a company, back when that was a possibility!)

This clash in values tends to be where our arguments stem from. This year, for example, at the annual Christmas get-together:

  • One of the dogs spilt my sister's drink over the table. It's this super-expensive, ornate, carved wooden table with a glass top. Stepmum FREAKED THE FUCK OUT, literally shrieking, talking about how they'd need to get it professionally cleaned etc etc. It was literally a bit of prosecco. My sister was mortified and left soon after.
  • My stepsister's fella (early 30s), an ordinary lower-middle-class bloke from Birmingham, mentioned that his mother isn't much of a wine drinker, she thinks Echo Falls is brilliant. To which, again, stepmother SHRIEKS with laughter. She's literally a millionnaire. Laughing at this ordinary working-class woman who doesn't know about wine. It made me feel physically sick. Bearing in mind, too, that my partner (50f) was also there, and she grew up in care, on the absolute bones of her arse; Echo Falls would've been a distant fucking DREAM.
  • My sister and I gave Dad and stepmum a hamper with loads of posh food in it for Xmas. I wrapped it in cellophane and ribbons and whatnot. I made a joke about how shit I am at wrapping things (context: I'm from South Wales, self-deprecation is endemic to our humour). She shrieks: "Oh I bet you relished the opportunity to skive off work for a bit to wrap it!" I work 60-hour weeks for a human rights organisation. She is an ex-doctor, and (endemic to the profession, in my experience!) therefore thinks she is better than everyone else. (This final comment was when I told her to pipe down, and she apologised, while shrieking.)

I just feel like whenever I'm at her (perfect show-home) house, I'm playing a bit-part in a fantasy M&S advert - with her at the centre. I never feel comfortable there, because if a drink gets spilled or you get too close to some expensive item of homeware, all hell breaks loose. Don't get me wrong: she cooks, she hosts, that's very generous of her. But it's The Stepmum Show, constantly. She takes over the conversation, she's not funny (unforgivably, imo!), she's just incredibly UP herself - and, as I said, a massive snob. The above is the tip of the iceberg, honestly. She literally thinks people who weren't born into inherited wealth are basically lazy and stupid.

She's always been a bit weird with me tbh. E.g. when I was about 20, we had a blazing row about something or other, and she apologised afterwards and told me straight-up that she is intimidated by my intelligence. I mean honestly, wtf?! Even if you FELT it, would you SAY it?! But she does seem majorly insecure, like she had a very good education but was essentially educated above her intelligence because her parents were rich; she seems very uncomfortably with the fact (which I LOVE) that intelligence is pretty equally distributed among the population, and you cannot fucking BUY it, however hard you try.

I'm ranting, sorry!

Everyone who's met her agrees that she's awful, a snob, and wtf is Dad doing with her - but Dad seems, or acts, oblivious. As I said, he's from a very working-class, South Wales background. He never sees his friends anymore, really; they obviously think she's a stuck-up bitch. He is also more or a less a functioning alcoholic at this point. Getting slowly sozzled on posh wine while she runs the Stepmum Show and offends everyone, seemingly obliviously.

One more example of what she's like: a few years back, she and my Dad went on a weekend away for his best mate's 60th. She took one of his childhood friends aside and said: "Do you mind not talking about your childhood memories this weekend? I don't really like hearing about times before [Dad] and I were together."

My sister is a peacekeeper, plus Dad and stepmum do a huge amount to help with their kids (she is not entirely evil - she is very generous in helping with the kids). So she is not one to rock the boat. She also lives very close to them, and he helps her out a lot, sees her a lot, etc. I only live about 20 miles away, mind, but he never comes up here (and when he does, it's always with stepmum).

I'm wondering wtf to do, tbh. I love my Dad and I know he loves me. More than that, we LIKE each other; we get along great. But she just takes over every single interaction and it's really getting on my tits and affecting my relationship with him.

I'm not stupid: I know I'm not gonna change her and he's not gonna leave her. So I'm trying to think what to do that wouldn't just be me ranting. I was thinking of maybe writing him an email (presuming she doesn't check his emails as well as answer his phone, but who knows, honestly). Just explaining how I feel. Especially, explaining that I'm not avoiding HIM (I'm really worried that he thinks I am), that the problem isn't HIM, it's HER (though the problem is also, let's face it, him being a bit fucking useless in a Man way). And just asking if we can spend time together without her. But I don't want to make his life more difficult for him, either. But an email could help because he wouldn't immediately FORGET it (which he has a tendency to do with phone calls, probably because of the whole high-functioning alcoholic thing), and he could read back over it, and tbh I'm better at communicating via writing than in person / on the phone anyway, and he could have some time to process it?

Is this just a losing battle, do I just need to get over it?!

Thanks so much in advance for any advice / shared stories / etc! <3

OP posts:
Moveoverdarlin · 28/12/2024 08:39

I think you need to accept that they have been married 20 plus years and they come as a pair. I can understand why a teenage girl would need time one on one with her father but at 40 writing him a letter saying you want to see him alone seems a bit OTT.

You say she’s intimidated by your intelligence but you seem intimidated by her nice house and high standards.

Your Dad probably finds it easier with you when everyone is together. My Mum and Dad have been together 50 years but one on one I’d struggle with conversation with my Dad for too long.

Youhaveunderminedyrargument · 28/12/2024 08:50

@LoveIsAVerb
I agreed and nodded along with you until this:
"She is an ex-doctor, and (endemic to the profession, in my experience!) therefore thinks she is better than everyone else"
Now I just think you are bitter and rude.

StopPissingMeOff · 28/12/2024 08:54

@LoveIsAVerb Yesterday you said “Yes, she goes away for weekends and all sorts with her kids, and Dad doesn't tag along!!”
surely this is ample opportunity to do stuff with your dad without her?

LoveIsAVerb · 28/12/2024 08:54

harriethoyle · 28/12/2024 07:04

@LoveIsAVerb why are you only engaging with the posts that agree with you and not the many posts pointing out where you’re at fault? Did you just want an echo chamber?

Edited

I am a newbie here, this is the first post I've ever made. Does everyone engage with all posts on a thread, if they've created that thread; is that the unwritten lore of the forum? I have tried my best to engage with all the constructive ones, and I write FAST, but I'm finding it hard to keep up (not complaining, v grateful for any and all engagement!).

I did post a response early on in this thread, specifically thanking those who were leaving negative feedback, and saying I was taking it on board.

There are some things I'm not responding to, e.g.:

  • Analyses of my family that are laughably incorrect (but announced very confidently - impressive, really!)
  • Accusations of "reverse snobbery" (suspect these people also believe in "reverse racism" 😅).
  • People weirdly assuming that I act like a prick to my stepmother, purely because of the ranty nature of this post, as if I have no filter whatsoever. This is a forum, not her bloody living room! You know it's possible to be perfectly polite and friendly in person, for the sake of everyone around you, while feeling quite differently inside, right?!
  • People being quite cruel ("he just doesn't love you, get over it" - Jesus Christ, guys! Do you wanna TWIST THE KNIFE a bit harder, you're clearly LOVING it?! 😂😂 Not sure whether you've realised this, but you can have a thought without voicing it - cf. point 3 above?!)

I don't really know what I'm doing here, but I haven't meant to break any unwritten rules by not responding to any and all posts!

I do appreciate all feedback, including feedback of the "you're being a total dick" variety, and I am considering it, even if I'm not responding to it directly. Thank you.

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 28/12/2024 08:55

Bollocks. Save for your post to me you’ve only engaged with those up for slagging your stepmother. Your faux naivety is laughable.

LoveIsAVerb · 28/12/2024 08:57

Calmhappyandhealthy · 28/12/2024 08:23

Suck it up

Your Dad is a weak wife controlled man

He won't change

Your step mum is who she is

She won't change

Deal with it

Suck it up.....see your Dad. Try to love him for who he is

Oof, tough love! 😅Ultimately I suspect you are right. It's the "deal with it" part that I'm struggling with. Like... HOW?! How do you deal with that when you love someone? It's just hard, innit. But I appreciate the directness and brevity of your post!

OP posts:
LoveIsAVerb · 28/12/2024 08:58

This reply has been deleted

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Mummadeze · 28/12/2024 08:58

I think she would be less annoying if you manage to forge a genuine relationship with her. Her performative behaviour sounds like a product of her insecurity which is surely fuelled by her sensing that you don’t like her. I get it because I can get quite shrieky and try-hard when I think people don’t like me. It’s a misguided attempt to impress them or make them laugh. Even when I can see it not working, I keep trying to try and crack them. She admitted to you that you intimidate her, which was quite a vulnerable and open thing to say and is a clue that the issue isn’t one-sided. I know it might be hard, but could you get to know the real her by doing something together on your own and make her feel accepted by you. Try harder to understand her and be her friend? Because if she relaxes in your company, I think she might back off a bit too and it will eventually lead to you having more alone time with your Dad. I might be completely wrong, but I bet if we read a post about this situation from her perspective it might read very differently.

LoveIsAVerb · 28/12/2024 09:00

NoSquirrels · 28/12/2024 08:29

You’ve already identified times she’s not with your dad ie nephews football, when she’s with her DC.

When she’s away with her kids is the perfect time to plan something with you and your sister. And ask him round to do DIY - get your partner to tell you what she wants a hand with (even if she doesn’t really, she’ll have some ideas). Although I would say, my FIL’s wife was so joined at the hip she’d come along to hold his hammer for him…

Yes you're right! Thank you! I'm sure there is some DIY that needs doing, I will ask the other half, she's prob sick of it!

Lol at the hammer-holding thing!!! Omg I can also imagine that happening... Dad and I were discussing going for a swim in the sea on Boxing Day - an activity she absolutely wouldn't be up for. But no - she decided she'd come along to "watch the coats"...

OP posts:
BCBird · 28/12/2024 09:00

My ex partner had a grown up.son
He was keen for me to.go with him.when he visited his son. I pointed out that I would occasionally but his son did not really want yo spend time with me and that lad and dad time was important . Some people are not thst intuitive

LoveIsAVerb · 28/12/2024 09:02

IamnotSethRogan · 28/12/2024 07:23

Sounds very irritating. As a small start, could you start a new WhatsApp chat without her and just route all conversations through that? He asks you something on the group she's in and you answer through the one she's not in?

Similarly, could you book an event with tickets ? Maybe for his next birthday? "I've booked 3 tickets, for a surprise (so he can't book one for the step mother) for you, me and dsis"?

You shouldn't have to resort to stuff like this but talking hasn't really worked.

Thank you for the suggestions, these are all great ideas!

She very often books a holiday for the two of them for his birthday and Father's Day, though...

Your point about "you shouldn't have to resort to stuff like this" hits home tbh. I think I feel somewhat resentful of having to strategise to see my own fucking father, you know?! On the one hand: suck it up, buttercup; if that's how it is, that's how it is. On the other: it really grinds my gears?!

OP posts:
Ukholidaysaregreat · 28/12/2024 09:04

I wouldn't write it down. There is every chance your step Mum will read it and that would be a total nightmare to sort out. I agree your Dad is being pathetic not to sort out seeing you separately but men often are like that.

MuggleMe · 28/12/2024 09:06

OP your story resonates so much. My mum died when I was 14, a year later my dad had remarried to an awful overbearing younger woman. She had a facade of being nice and could seem/be genuinely nice, but only as long as she was in control and you played by her rules.

She was permanently passive aggressive and I basically never communicated with dad alone again. I have sooo many stories but that's not relevant.

When I got engaged my DH tried to salvage the relationship, we wrote letters, then the next time we visited we were dragged along for family therapy where the therapist had met with SM before and transparently on their/her side, picking apart the letters. It was awful!

Long story short, 30 years later one sibling has gone virtually non-contact (drove 5 hours to visit for dad's 80th, stayed 3 hours), and I'm low-contact and mostly because I have children I wanted them to have a relationship with and have been overly patient.

Unfortunately dad has dementia now so the time for an independent relationship is over. I'm mourning his loss as I have been for years. Dad was an adult when he chose to get married and chose to allow SM to rule the roost so as much as I like to blame SM, it's on him too.

RandomMess · 28/12/2024 09:07

Ok so even when you got to the pub she tags along so you just need to be direct.

"Dad I need some daughter Dad time with you. Do you fancy doing x or y with me." If she tries to get in the car he lets it be known that she's invited herself you say "No, it's just daughter Dad time like stepmum has with her DC"

Hopefully then you again can talk it through that you miss him and you never get one on one time with him and you need it. Which includes phone calls and meeting up.

LoveIsAVerb · 28/12/2024 09:08

TotemPolly · 28/12/2024 08:29

I don't think you have a step mum problem , you don't like her and I get that , but the problem lies with your Dad .
You've asked him many times to separately meet up without her , but he still turns up as a 2 with her .

That's weakness in his part , he should have set up boundaries with her that were none negotiable years ago and he chose not to for an easier life.

I'm a step Mum of an adult daughter of my dh , she was around 15 when we got together . If he / she wants contact without me , then fine , likewise with my children

With your situation , the timespan is tricky , it has been like it for many years , so hard for them ( him ) to change now . They've done what suits them , and not you .I

You could try to change it by telling him that for the next few months you only want to see him only , and when he wants to meet to contact you .I

That way you will push him into making that decision , and you will just have to wait and see if he commits to it . If not , you don't see your dad . Something you would just have to accept . He chooses her over you.

Thank you for this. I think these are all very astute observations. I agree that it is weakness on his part that's the ultimate problem, and also that the pattern is now very deeply set, over many years, so change is unlikely.

I like your idea of telling him I want to see him only for the next few months - but in all honesty, I'm scared to do that.

Not just because I'm scared he won't live up to it (though that, too), and I'm scared for what that would mean for our relationship (though that, too!) - but because I'm scared to put the cat among the pigeons, so to speak. I'm scared of the "why?" questions I will receive from Dad - and from her (because he will tell her / she will demand to know why she's not being invited to every single thing).

What can I possibly say to that - to the "why don't you want to see stepmum?" Can I just say: "I just want to see Dad alone sometimes" and leave it at that? But knowing them both as people, I don't think it WOULD get left at that, you know?! And then what - how do you say (or AVOID saying) "I just do not like her"?!

Urgh! Sorry to ask loads of Qs!

OP posts:
LoveIsAVerb · 28/12/2024 09:12

Moveoverdarlin · 28/12/2024 08:39

I think you need to accept that they have been married 20 plus years and they come as a pair. I can understand why a teenage girl would need time one on one with her father but at 40 writing him a letter saying you want to see him alone seems a bit OTT.

You say she’s intimidated by your intelligence but you seem intimidated by her nice house and high standards.

Your Dad probably finds it easier with you when everyone is together. My Mum and Dad have been together 50 years but one on one I’d struggle with conversation with my Dad for too long.

Edited

Yeah perhaps it is a bit OTT, this is why I'm asking for people's opinions, tbh - I'm not sure whether it's a bit MUCH, you know?!

I only reported about her being intimidated by my intelligence (just writing that feels so gross and ridiculous, right?!) because she literally told me that, to my face, when I was about 19. I can assure you I am not intimidated by inanimate objects, bricks and mortar, etc. - however "nice"!

I think there's definitely something in your final para, though - about Dad finding it easier when everyone is together. I think I said this in an earlier comment, but I have noticed this becoming a bigger issue over the years. Maybe socialising is like a muscle: the less you use it, the weaker it gets. He seems very reliant on her now, socially; just kind of lets her take over while he gets slowly sozzled in the corner. But we can be on the phone for hours (occasionally) - when she's not around. But face-to-face, you might be right that he would struggle with holding a convo because their dynamic is such that she is the social leader, if that makes sense.

Hmm.

OP posts:
HadEnoughOfThisPish · 28/12/2024 09:14

LoveIsAVerb · 27/12/2024 19:47

@DrinkFeckArseBrick Yeah I think you are right, I need to ask him to spend some time with me without her, without mentioning how I feel about her. This is probably really lame but I'm not sure how to do that! I think if I suggest it, his first question will be "why?" There aren't any hobbies we share that I could suggest we do and that would "accidentally" exclude her. Hmm...

'Why the fuck do you think, dad? I love you, you're my dad, I want to see you on your own sometimes without Sandra shrieking and being a pain in the arse'
OR
'Why not?'

LoveIsAVerb · 28/12/2024 09:14

Youhaveunderminedyrargument · 28/12/2024 08:50

@LoveIsAVerb
I agreed and nodded along with you until this:
"She is an ex-doctor, and (endemic to the profession, in my experience!) therefore thinks she is better than everyone else"
Now I just think you are bitter and rude.

Yeah I might have been a bit of a dick there. Obviously my own experience with doctors is a sample of 1, and there must be plenty of excellent ones! It is a pattern I've noticed, but that doesn't mean much, in the grand scheme of things, I realise! I'm just venting, sorry ("AND ANOTHER THINGGGGGG!!!!!" <shakes fist at sky>) 😅

OP posts:
LoveIsAVerb · 28/12/2024 09:18

Mummadeze · 28/12/2024 08:58

I think she would be less annoying if you manage to forge a genuine relationship with her. Her performative behaviour sounds like a product of her insecurity which is surely fuelled by her sensing that you don’t like her. I get it because I can get quite shrieky and try-hard when I think people don’t like me. It’s a misguided attempt to impress them or make them laugh. Even when I can see it not working, I keep trying to try and crack them. She admitted to you that you intimidate her, which was quite a vulnerable and open thing to say and is a clue that the issue isn’t one-sided. I know it might be hard, but could you get to know the real her by doing something together on your own and make her feel accepted by you. Try harder to understand her and be her friend? Because if she relaxes in your company, I think she might back off a bit too and it will eventually lead to you having more alone time with your Dad. I might be completely wrong, but I bet if we read a post about this situation from her perspective it might read very differently.

Honestly? I think this is a really thoughtful and good idea, AND I don't think it's going to happen. I just do not have the time or inclination to forge this kind of relationship with her. I work so much, I barely have time to see the people I genuinely love, you know?! And I know myself well enough to know that this is not the kind of thing I could do - even while sort of wishing that I COULD do something like this, and knowing that I would deeply admire anyone else who did this.

So: thank you, but I think this is beyond my gift, sadly!

Thank you also for sharing your own experience of trying to make people laugh and crack them when you sense they don't like you. Tbh, I do that too! I always try to impress the most hard-to-impress person in the room, always try to make people laugh, etc. So I should understand that better, really.

Thanks again!

OP posts:
curious79 · 28/12/2024 09:20

Hoglet70 · 27/12/2024 19:23

I think you need to get over it, she's not going away.

You don't need to know anything about wine to know that Echo Falls is shit buy the way lol

First response nailed it.

don’t create distance between you and your Dad because you’re forcing him to choose.

Stop getting so offended on behalf of everyone else - you need to chill too

your dad is part of the problem - like so many men he’s a total patsy to a dominant woman

LoveIsAVerb · 28/12/2024 09:20

BCBird · 28/12/2024 09:00

My ex partner had a grown up.son
He was keen for me to.go with him.when he visited his son. I pointed out that I would occasionally but his son did not really want yo spend time with me and that lad and dad time was important . Some people are not thst intuitive

This is definitely also a factor: my dad is NOT an intuitive man, not an emotionally intelligent man; I would literally need to SPELL IT OUT - and then he would probably forget it because he is entering that stage of life where all that lifelong boozing affects your memory...

OP posts:
TutiFrutti · 28/12/2024 09:20

@LoveIsAVerb
Hi, friendly wave from me. I totally understand, I'm in a similar position. My dad hasn't remarried but she moved in at lightning speed after they met (she wasn't an ow).
All my dad's lifelong friends have drifted away, some specifically saying they don't feel welcome by her. She is, by my dad's own admission controlling and v anxious but she's a strong character and dominates him. He seems to have settled for a quiet life.
I totally get the phone situation, I have been chastised for being rude to her on the phone when she persists in butting in our conversations (also on speaker), she gets angry if I express an opinion she doesn't like and shouts over me.
I accept I can't change the situation so I simply continue speaking when she interrupts, politely point out it's rude to listen in/interrupt (to which my dad will agree) and will absolutely say what I like regardless of if she'll approve. She stops for a while but then it starts again.
It's not within my power to change it but I sympathise op, it's really shit.

LoveIsAVerb · 28/12/2024 09:21

Ukholidaysaregreat · 28/12/2024 09:04

I wouldn't write it down. There is every chance your step Mum will read it and that would be a total nightmare to sort out. I agree your Dad is being pathetic not to sort out seeing you separately but men often are like that.

God, yeah, you're probably/definitely right about that... Thank you!!!

So thankful I'm gay lol

OP posts:
LoveIsAVerb · 28/12/2024 09:25

MuggleMe · 28/12/2024 09:06

OP your story resonates so much. My mum died when I was 14, a year later my dad had remarried to an awful overbearing younger woman. She had a facade of being nice and could seem/be genuinely nice, but only as long as she was in control and you played by her rules.

She was permanently passive aggressive and I basically never communicated with dad alone again. I have sooo many stories but that's not relevant.

When I got engaged my DH tried to salvage the relationship, we wrote letters, then the next time we visited we were dragged along for family therapy where the therapist had met with SM before and transparently on their/her side, picking apart the letters. It was awful!

Long story short, 30 years later one sibling has gone virtually non-contact (drove 5 hours to visit for dad's 80th, stayed 3 hours), and I'm low-contact and mostly because I have children I wanted them to have a relationship with and have been overly patient.

Unfortunately dad has dementia now so the time for an independent relationship is over. I'm mourning his loss as I have been for years. Dad was an adult when he chose to get married and chose to allow SM to rule the roost so as much as I like to blame SM, it's on him too.

I'm so sorry for your loss... or losses... because it IS a loss, isn't it? You grieve them. And that's before even getting to the dementia part of the equation. I'm so sorry.

Your story massively resonates with me, too. I absolutely cannot deal with passive-aggression, like I just do not know what to do with it, I would literally rather someone was aggressive-aggressive, just punched me in the face or whatever, than this constant slow drip-feed of catty comments?! It's so anathema to me, I can't deal with it!

Jesus fucking Christ re: your group therapist! Someone regulate that profession, ffs!!! So many charlatans causing so much damage (I have had family therapy in the past, as a very young teenager; it... did not go well lol).

I guess I'm hoping that low/no contact isn't the only option, but it might be. Ugh. FWIW, I think you're very brave, but it must be heartbreaking.

But of course, yes, you're right - it's on the Dads, really, not the stepmums...

OP posts:
LoveIsAVerb · 28/12/2024 09:27

RandomMess · 28/12/2024 09:07

Ok so even when you got to the pub she tags along so you just need to be direct.

"Dad I need some daughter Dad time with you. Do you fancy doing x or y with me." If she tries to get in the car he lets it be known that she's invited herself you say "No, it's just daughter Dad time like stepmum has with her DC"

Hopefully then you again can talk it through that you miss him and you never get one on one time with him and you need it. Which includes phone calls and meeting up.

Yes! Thank you! I need to hear this kind of thing, I think... I need to woman up!!! For all my bluster, I think I'm scared lol

OP posts: