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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to want to see my Dad without my (awful) stepmum sometimes?

214 replies

LoveIsAVerb · 27/12/2024 19:19

Hi all. I'm new here, go gentle!

Around this time of year, I have my annual argument with my stepmother. It was pretty low-key this year: at our annual pre-Christmas get together, she made a few snarky comments; I told her to pipe down after the final snarky comment; and she apologised. (More detail on that later!)

But it's raised a perennial issue: my stepmother and I fundamentally do not get on, and I would really like to see my Dad occasionally without her being there. But this never happens. Around this time every year, following my annual tiff with my stepmum, my sister (42, two kids) and I (40, no kids) have a word with my Dad - just "hey Dad, it would be really nice to hang out together without stepmum being there". After that, we usually have ONE walk together, he's a bit awkward about the whole thing, and then it just goes back to normal, i.e. her always being there.

It's not just that she's always there when we see him, either. Even when we call his mobile, he always puts us on speaker so that she can be involved in the conversation. We hardly ever even get to text privately; he routes all texts through the group family chat, which includes him, her, my sister and I, and my stepsisters.

Dad and stepmum have been married for 20-odd years. He left my mother for her (he was having an affair with her). I'm not particularly arsed about that tbh; mum also had affairs. I'd like to state upfront that I haven't put her into some "Evil Stepmother" trope; I'm happy that he's found someone. It's not the "stepmum" factor; it's specifically about HER, as an individual. We have wildly different values. She comes from Old Money and is, frankly, a massive snob. (My Dad came from nothing, for context, but made pretty good money by working his way up in a company, back when that was a possibility!)

This clash in values tends to be where our arguments stem from. This year, for example, at the annual Christmas get-together:

  • One of the dogs spilt my sister's drink over the table. It's this super-expensive, ornate, carved wooden table with a glass top. Stepmum FREAKED THE FUCK OUT, literally shrieking, talking about how they'd need to get it professionally cleaned etc etc. It was literally a bit of prosecco. My sister was mortified and left soon after.
  • My stepsister's fella (early 30s), an ordinary lower-middle-class bloke from Birmingham, mentioned that his mother isn't much of a wine drinker, she thinks Echo Falls is brilliant. To which, again, stepmother SHRIEKS with laughter. She's literally a millionnaire. Laughing at this ordinary working-class woman who doesn't know about wine. It made me feel physically sick. Bearing in mind, too, that my partner (50f) was also there, and she grew up in care, on the absolute bones of her arse; Echo Falls would've been a distant fucking DREAM.
  • My sister and I gave Dad and stepmum a hamper with loads of posh food in it for Xmas. I wrapped it in cellophane and ribbons and whatnot. I made a joke about how shit I am at wrapping things (context: I'm from South Wales, self-deprecation is endemic to our humour). She shrieks: "Oh I bet you relished the opportunity to skive off work for a bit to wrap it!" I work 60-hour weeks for a human rights organisation. She is an ex-doctor, and (endemic to the profession, in my experience!) therefore thinks she is better than everyone else. (This final comment was when I told her to pipe down, and she apologised, while shrieking.)

I just feel like whenever I'm at her (perfect show-home) house, I'm playing a bit-part in a fantasy M&S advert - with her at the centre. I never feel comfortable there, because if a drink gets spilled or you get too close to some expensive item of homeware, all hell breaks loose. Don't get me wrong: she cooks, she hosts, that's very generous of her. But it's The Stepmum Show, constantly. She takes over the conversation, she's not funny (unforgivably, imo!), she's just incredibly UP herself - and, as I said, a massive snob. The above is the tip of the iceberg, honestly. She literally thinks people who weren't born into inherited wealth are basically lazy and stupid.

She's always been a bit weird with me tbh. E.g. when I was about 20, we had a blazing row about something or other, and she apologised afterwards and told me straight-up that she is intimidated by my intelligence. I mean honestly, wtf?! Even if you FELT it, would you SAY it?! But she does seem majorly insecure, like she had a very good education but was essentially educated above her intelligence because her parents were rich; she seems very uncomfortably with the fact (which I LOVE) that intelligence is pretty equally distributed among the population, and you cannot fucking BUY it, however hard you try.

I'm ranting, sorry!

Everyone who's met her agrees that she's awful, a snob, and wtf is Dad doing with her - but Dad seems, or acts, oblivious. As I said, he's from a very working-class, South Wales background. He never sees his friends anymore, really; they obviously think she's a stuck-up bitch. He is also more or a less a functioning alcoholic at this point. Getting slowly sozzled on posh wine while she runs the Stepmum Show and offends everyone, seemingly obliviously.

One more example of what she's like: a few years back, she and my Dad went on a weekend away for his best mate's 60th. She took one of his childhood friends aside and said: "Do you mind not talking about your childhood memories this weekend? I don't really like hearing about times before [Dad] and I were together."

My sister is a peacekeeper, plus Dad and stepmum do a huge amount to help with their kids (she is not entirely evil - she is very generous in helping with the kids). So she is not one to rock the boat. She also lives very close to them, and he helps her out a lot, sees her a lot, etc. I only live about 20 miles away, mind, but he never comes up here (and when he does, it's always with stepmum).

I'm wondering wtf to do, tbh. I love my Dad and I know he loves me. More than that, we LIKE each other; we get along great. But she just takes over every single interaction and it's really getting on my tits and affecting my relationship with him.

I'm not stupid: I know I'm not gonna change her and he's not gonna leave her. So I'm trying to think what to do that wouldn't just be me ranting. I was thinking of maybe writing him an email (presuming she doesn't check his emails as well as answer his phone, but who knows, honestly). Just explaining how I feel. Especially, explaining that I'm not avoiding HIM (I'm really worried that he thinks I am), that the problem isn't HIM, it's HER (though the problem is also, let's face it, him being a bit fucking useless in a Man way). And just asking if we can spend time together without her. But I don't want to make his life more difficult for him, either. But an email could help because he wouldn't immediately FORGET it (which he has a tendency to do with phone calls, probably because of the whole high-functioning alcoholic thing), and he could read back over it, and tbh I'm better at communicating via writing than in person / on the phone anyway, and he could have some time to process it?

Is this just a losing battle, do I just need to get over it?!

Thanks so much in advance for any advice / shared stories / etc! <3

OP posts:
Biffbaff · 27/12/2024 23:03

Agree with a PP, this reminded me of Olivia Colman's character in Fleabag!

Maybe you could use the new year as a chance to renew your request - eg Dad, this year my new year's resolution is to make the most of one on one family time. Can we start with lunch just us on X date? Great I'll book a table for 2, etc. Then you could make it a regular thing.

Pussycat22 · 27/12/2024 23:07

Some good material for a best selling book here !!!

chocolatespreadsandwich · 27/12/2024 23:08

I think theres a bit of chippiness going from all of you to be honest. She can't help her background,.it isn't something she should have to apologise for.

Not least because Echo falls just is objectively awful. I mean that's not a snobby thing it's just undrinkable.

MrsHamlet · 27/12/2024 23:11

I think your stepmother might be mine too.

Except I KNOW she reads his emails.

Absolutely you should be allowed some alone time with your dad. But like me, you won't be allowed.

IAm16StoneHalloween2024 · 27/12/2024 23:24

All these people saying Echo Falls is terrible - would you laugh if someone’s son said their mum liked it? Would you laugh in his face?

It doesn’t matter what anyone thinks of that specific drink, it’s about manners.

LoveIsAVerb · 27/12/2024 23:27

DarkandStormyNightie · 27/12/2024 21:57

@LoveIsAVerb I totally understand. I think we've been living the same life! except my dad has been married for 30 years and my SM monologues and is a religious nut! honestly, she joined a Christian cult years ago and comes out with homophobic, end of the world nonsense that would make your jaw drop.

She presents as a lovely woman and then will drop in these awful statements out of nowhere. It was manageable when the kids were young but not so much now they understand what's being said. I don't want them around that sort of talk.

I've had very long talks with my Dad and he nods along but then nothing changes. Although he will get the message occasionally and will come down to see us on his own (she constantly talks over the top of him when she's around). Then it all goes back to the same old. He has to phone me when she's out at church or he's required to put the call on speaker so she can hear what's being said. She lurks in the background and you don't always know she's there until she chips in.

Sometimes he talks about what he'll do when she's gone and he's got plans to sell up and move near us quickly. But I think its talk to be honest.

I've been angry over the years as to how he's been so passive. Like you, I value honest relationships and it feels like we're constantly playing let's pretend we're a happy family. I know she'd like to be a matriarchal figure with all news going through here and is puzzled why I don't want to chat with her or send piictures on whatsapp. I just don't want to.

I've come to the conclusion that nothing will change so I can only manage myself and my family. I know they're puzzled as to why I'm not playing thr game but tbh I've explained it enough over the years, so my dad is choosing not to understand.

You may just have to accept your dad is choosing this situation but remember you also get to choose as well. You don't have to play pretend, he must meet you halfway if he wanta a relationship. So lay out your boundaries and stick to them. Taking back control of your choices will give you more peace of mind.

@DarkandStormyNightie Omg that does sound similar... I'm so sorry you're going through this, too. The cult stuff sounds like an abject nightmare, wtf?!

"She presents as a lovely woman and then will drop in these awful statements out of nowhere." - YES, exactly! And they're so out of the blue that it's always a massive shock?! And everyone is so gobsmacked that by the time you'd even think to respond, she has moved the conversation on. Some other responses here have compared her to Fleabag, and omfg, YES, that is exactly it!!! How do you deal w/someone like that, honestly?!

The funny thing is that - despite some previous comments on here about me having a "chip on my shoulder" (?!) - I am known among my friends and colleagues for being virtually unoffendable. Things piss me off, sure, but she is the only person I know who says things that I find actually offensive, you know?! And that's not because of her being the "other woman", as some previous comments have suggested (who gives a shit about that, honestly?! Mum and dad divorced quarter of a century ago, mum also cheated on him, etc.!) - it's because of the things that she says. It is her, as an individual. I just... think she's kind of a despicable person. And idk where you go from there, really, if you want an honest relationship with someone?!

On that note: I'm glad it's not just me who values honest relationships. My sister is... I love her, but she can be quite... instrumental/transactional. Dad and stepmum do a lot of practical things for her, childcare etc. Whereas there is nothing riding on this relationship for me, in practical terms. That sounds horrific, it's horrific to me to think of relationships in this way. But it is what it is.

"I've come to the conclusion that nothing will change so I can only manage myself and my family. I know they're puzzled as to why I'm not playing thr game but tbh I've explained it enough over the years, so my dad is choosing not to understand." - I think this is what I need to do. But I don't want them to be puzzled. I'm wondering whether I might need to have one last conversation with Dad about wanting to spend time 1 on 1. And then if/when that doesn't happen, at least I know I gave it a good go, I guess - and sticking to my boundaries after that would be easier, as I would've very clearly stated those boundaries (I don't think I have, up until this point; I've just backed off for a bit and not seen them again until I've calmed down).

How do you deal with their puzzlement? Like are they still genuinely confused as to why you don't want to play happy families? Do they ask you about it / say anything about it now?

Thanks for your comment!

OP posts:
LoveIsAVerb · 27/12/2024 23:28

IAm16StoneHalloween2024 · 27/12/2024 23:24

All these people saying Echo Falls is terrible - would you laugh if someone’s son said their mum liked it? Would you laugh in his face?

It doesn’t matter what anyone thinks of that specific drink, it’s about manners.

RIGHT?! Seriously, what is WRONG with these people?! 😂

OP posts:
LoveIsAVerb · 27/12/2024 23:30

Pussycat22 · 27/12/2024 23:07

Some good material for a best selling book here !!!

Unfortunately for them, I am actually a writer (with a book deal)...

OP posts:
LoveIsAVerb · 27/12/2024 23:31

Biffbaff · 27/12/2024 23:03

Agree with a PP, this reminded me of Olivia Colman's character in Fleabag!

Maybe you could use the new year as a chance to renew your request - eg Dad, this year my new year's resolution is to make the most of one on one family time. Can we start with lunch just us on X date? Great I'll book a table for 2, etc. Then you could make it a regular thing.

She literally is OC in Fleabag, it's insane, several people have commented on it (people who know her in real life) 😂

That's a great idea, thank you!!!

OP posts:
LoveIsAVerb · 27/12/2024 23:32

MrsHamlet · 27/12/2024 23:11

I think your stepmother might be mine too.

Except I KNOW she reads his emails.

Absolutely you should be allowed some alone time with your dad. But like me, you won't be allowed.

Ugh I'm sorry you're dealing with this BS too. What a pile of bollocks. ❤

OP posts:
Biffbaff · 27/12/2024 23:33

LoveIsAVerb · 27/12/2024 23:30

Unfortunately for them, I am actually a writer (with a book deal)...

Brilliant, I was reading your OP thinking you should be a writer! (Fellow writer/editor here.)

LoveIsAVerb · 27/12/2024 23:41

Anyideashowtodealwiththis · 27/12/2024 22:11

I think OP has already explained that step mum was a doctor because she came from a wealthy background and had an expensive education. In reality, she’s the type of person who probably wasn’t hugely intelligent and wouldn’t have got such good grades if she’d come from a more modest background.

That’s why OP is bringing it up- the step mum sounds quite insecure ( judging by her behaviour) and this sounds like a plausible explanation. She appears to have everything in life ( but probably is aware that she’s been lucky).

Yes, precisely. Apart from the "probably is aware that she's been lucky". I'm not sure how, but she doesn't seem to have that level of self-awareness, unfortunately. When she was working in the NHS, she used to refer to her patients as "the great unwashed". That's the kind of attitude we're dealing with here.

I have unfortunately had to deal with a lot of doctors in my time, and the overwhelming majority espoused similar attitudes towards "the masses", i.e. their patients, i.e. all of us. An ex of mine, also a doctor, told me that in their first lecture at med school (in the late-2000s, so, not a billion years ago), they were told they were the "creme de la creme of society".

Sorry if the classist attitude among the medical professional is genuinely news to anyone. Consider yourselves lucky to have never been on the receiving end of it as a patient, I guess?!

OP posts:
LoveIsAVerb · 27/12/2024 23:42

Biffbaff · 27/12/2024 23:33

Brilliant, I was reading your OP thinking you should be a writer! (Fellow writer/editor here.)

Thank you so much! And yay for a fellow word nerd! (Much prefer editing, writing is HELL haha)

OP posts:
jeomeollibyeoldul · 27/12/2024 23:42

i know how you feel op. im not massively keen on my step mum either. i can sense that she doesn't like me and i think its probably because of a couple of things i did as a child/teenager, but then i feel a bit resentful because i was the child who was probably acting out and processing things badly and she was an adult who should have known better. but ah well, i cant control how she feels. what age were you when the two of you met?

anyway, enough about me. i think you need to forget about her and blame your dad. he is the one with the blood ties to you. why is he not making more of an effort with you? he's the one who isnt willing to make time for you. you need to invite him - dad, let's go to the pub together, just us. explain to HIM that you want to see him one on one more. leave your stepmother out of it

LoveIsAVerb · 27/12/2024 23:51

jeomeollibyeoldul · 27/12/2024 23:42

i know how you feel op. im not massively keen on my step mum either. i can sense that she doesn't like me and i think its probably because of a couple of things i did as a child/teenager, but then i feel a bit resentful because i was the child who was probably acting out and processing things badly and she was an adult who should have known better. but ah well, i cant control how she feels. what age were you when the two of you met?

anyway, enough about me. i think you need to forget about her and blame your dad. he is the one with the blood ties to you. why is he not making more of an effort with you? he's the one who isnt willing to make time for you. you need to invite him - dad, let's go to the pub together, just us. explain to HIM that you want to see him one on one more. leave your stepmother out of it

Thanks for this. And I'm really sorry you're in a similar situation. That first para sounds VERY similar, actually! I was about 18 when we first met. It... did not go well! And I was a HANDFUL of a teenager... Lots of mental health problems that started at a very early age (like 12), lots of traumatic stuff in my teens, not coping very well at all, etc.

But, like you, I felt (and still feel, now tht I'm thinking of it) that she (not to mention my father - to a much greater extent, obviously!) should've been the adults in that situation and not expected so much from a clearly vulnerable young girl who was struggling with a lot of stuff (some of which was his fault, frankly!).

Agree that my dad should be taking the majority of the blame. He needs to sort his shit out. I think I will have a word and focus it on us (me and him), not her, as you suggested. Really, the things that annoy me about her are by the by, right?! You don't get to like everyone, unfortunately?! But him having a relationship with his daughter is within his power, and he is to blame if he chooses not to do that.

Sorry I am writing a lot, all - I'm a writer; I can only think by writing; it's annoying, isn't it?! - but I think I am getting to some handy conclusions with your help! Thank you!

OP posts:
Haggisfish3 · 27/12/2024 23:54

I was in a similar situation and felt the same. My stepmother didn’t have to have a relationship with me. My dad did. He chose not to. He hid behind her and allowed her to separate me from him. Even in his death bed he couldn’t say sorry. I always make sure to spend time with each dc on my own and make sure exdh does too.

360redred · 27/12/2024 23:55

Could you think of something to do together that she might not like? Maybe somewhere a bit grubby!!!! Ten Pin Bowling, Go Karting, Darts, Football, paintball. Maybe something you did together when you were a child? Buy him a voucher and take him out for the day? I don't understand why some women seem to want 100% of a mans love and don't want him to give a little bit to anybody else even a daughter who isn't a threat. I had this with my brother, his girlfriend saw me as a threat !!! He's my brother for goodness sake.

LoveIsAVerb · 27/12/2024 23:55

Haggisfish3 · 27/12/2024 23:54

I was in a similar situation and felt the same. My stepmother didn’t have to have a relationship with me. My dad did. He chose not to. He hid behind her and allowed her to separate me from him. Even in his death bed he couldn’t say sorry. I always make sure to spend time with each dc on my own and make sure exdh does too.

God, this sounds so similar. I'm so sorry. Pricks. 💓

OP posts:
Haggisfish3 · 28/12/2024 00:01

One thing I did find helpful was counselling to come to terms with the fact I would never gain the acceptance from him that I wanted. And not allowing people to say ‘he’ll regret it when he’s old’. I said ‘no, he won’t. And it’s really shit and makes me feel crap’. And I was right.

TheFishWithRainbowScales · 28/12/2024 00:04

Haggisfish3 · 28/12/2024 00:01

One thing I did find helpful was counselling to come to terms with the fact I would never gain the acceptance from him that I wanted. And not allowing people to say ‘he’ll regret it when he’s old’. I said ‘no, he won’t. And it’s really shit and makes me feel crap’. And I was right.

Agree with this advice.

Singlemumtoadog · 28/12/2024 00:06

I don't have any useful advice but I am another one who is in this exact situation.
Relationship was the product of an affair, have since been married for over a decade. I don't think I still hold any resentment over the fact she was the OW but more it's just morphed into a realisation that we have nothing in common and I resent the time I have to spend with her. And because she clearly doesn't enjoy the time we spend together either- always looking for a reason to criticise my brother and I, insists on preparing grand meals that no one asked her to, then getting stressed over it, then expecting overwhelming gratitude for the meal she prepared. Then I just think why are we all doing this??? Just let my dad and I go out for a meal. I do think there's a level of insecurity and she feels as though she needs to minimise opportunities where we can talk about her.
And yes to the experience of feeling like all your comms are not with your Dad but the 'household of dad and step mum' which is actually just your step mum. Sometimes I've received a message where the grammar is too good and I know that it was in fact written by SM. Yes to calls being on speaker.
I could go on. I do hold my dad responsible for the situation. He has made a decision that he would rather let his relationship with his children suffer than have a polite but difficult conversation with his wife where he says 'Sometimes I would like to see my kids alone'. That's his choice.

Haggisfish3 · 28/12/2024 00:06

Honestly, the hurt is immeasurable. I suggested all the things others have here. None were taken up. The only time he ever paid me attention was when he worked abroad for months on end and she wasn’t with him to distract him. She was very very subtle about the way she worked. Nothing obvious or pinnable. But her disapproval of me (because of things I had said and done when a teenager and my mum and dad split up horribly and everyone behaved abysmally) ran deep and affected my relationship with my dad forever. Always happy to chat by pm if you want. ❤️

chocolatespreadsandwich · 28/12/2024 00:12

IAm16StoneHalloween2024 · 27/12/2024 23:24

All these people saying Echo Falls is terrible - would you laugh if someone’s son said their mum liked it? Would you laugh in his face?

It doesn’t matter what anyone thinks of that specific drink, it’s about manners.

No, but I also would struggle to think what to say tbh. I remember going tea total pretty rapidly when an ex's family brought out boxed wine for my first meal with them. I didn't say anything, but I was genuinely shocked people found the stuff drinkable.

Among her social group maybe everyone would assume it was a joke? I'd laugh if someone said their mum loved white lightning 🤷‍♀️ and it's kind of the wine equivalent

hazelnutvanillalatte · 28/12/2024 00:19

Just posting to say it's shit and I understand. It's a similar situation here, and it's really hard because I feel the family home has become 'her' home, and her family are invited much more than us, so we don't feel welcome anymore and the relationship has really suffered. DF is avoidant as well and just says 'don't worry it will all be fine,' and the wider family has basically said at least he's happy which I agree with. But at the same time I really miss our relationship. When her kids come they all go off together or send him away while they stay in the house, but we never get alone time together and even when we talk on the phone it's on loudspeaker.

Psychologymam · 28/12/2024 00:25

Poppyseeds79 · 27/12/2024 21:08

You sound hyper focused on her finances/upbring OP. You said your dad has also done well for himself money wise (you seem chuffed about the dragging himself up by his boot strap bit). But fuming about the fact she's wealthy (being born with a silver spoon in her gob)...

Except you also state she is a retired doctor? Which will have paid her well, but she'll definitely have had to work for it vs handed it.

If you don't like the woman that's perfectly fine. But there's no need to go around kicking shit in her face to make yourself feel better about her being rich.

Suck it up and go to the footy matches with your dad. He obviously enjoys those and you'd get solo time with him.

Edited

This - being cross because she has nice walking clothes and was a doctor is a little much - not exactly the 1% you’re dealing with. Wealthy people in the UK do not tend to work for the NHS in general! It does sound like every thing she does is annoying you and that might ease if you had time alone with your dad…. But he has to want that too, you can’t force him to spend time with you and blaming her for that feels unfair, however annoying she might be! I hope I’ve picked this up right but it also sounds like your sister is happy for her to care for her kids which must mean something - most parents are cautious about who they trust with their children.