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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to want to see my Dad without my (awful) stepmum sometimes?

214 replies

LoveIsAVerb · 27/12/2024 19:19

Hi all. I'm new here, go gentle!

Around this time of year, I have my annual argument with my stepmother. It was pretty low-key this year: at our annual pre-Christmas get together, she made a few snarky comments; I told her to pipe down after the final snarky comment; and she apologised. (More detail on that later!)

But it's raised a perennial issue: my stepmother and I fundamentally do not get on, and I would really like to see my Dad occasionally without her being there. But this never happens. Around this time every year, following my annual tiff with my stepmum, my sister (42, two kids) and I (40, no kids) have a word with my Dad - just "hey Dad, it would be really nice to hang out together without stepmum being there". After that, we usually have ONE walk together, he's a bit awkward about the whole thing, and then it just goes back to normal, i.e. her always being there.

It's not just that she's always there when we see him, either. Even when we call his mobile, he always puts us on speaker so that she can be involved in the conversation. We hardly ever even get to text privately; he routes all texts through the group family chat, which includes him, her, my sister and I, and my stepsisters.

Dad and stepmum have been married for 20-odd years. He left my mother for her (he was having an affair with her). I'm not particularly arsed about that tbh; mum also had affairs. I'd like to state upfront that I haven't put her into some "Evil Stepmother" trope; I'm happy that he's found someone. It's not the "stepmum" factor; it's specifically about HER, as an individual. We have wildly different values. She comes from Old Money and is, frankly, a massive snob. (My Dad came from nothing, for context, but made pretty good money by working his way up in a company, back when that was a possibility!)

This clash in values tends to be where our arguments stem from. This year, for example, at the annual Christmas get-together:

  • One of the dogs spilt my sister's drink over the table. It's this super-expensive, ornate, carved wooden table with a glass top. Stepmum FREAKED THE FUCK OUT, literally shrieking, talking about how they'd need to get it professionally cleaned etc etc. It was literally a bit of prosecco. My sister was mortified and left soon after.
  • My stepsister's fella (early 30s), an ordinary lower-middle-class bloke from Birmingham, mentioned that his mother isn't much of a wine drinker, she thinks Echo Falls is brilliant. To which, again, stepmother SHRIEKS with laughter. She's literally a millionnaire. Laughing at this ordinary working-class woman who doesn't know about wine. It made me feel physically sick. Bearing in mind, too, that my partner (50f) was also there, and she grew up in care, on the absolute bones of her arse; Echo Falls would've been a distant fucking DREAM.
  • My sister and I gave Dad and stepmum a hamper with loads of posh food in it for Xmas. I wrapped it in cellophane and ribbons and whatnot. I made a joke about how shit I am at wrapping things (context: I'm from South Wales, self-deprecation is endemic to our humour). She shrieks: "Oh I bet you relished the opportunity to skive off work for a bit to wrap it!" I work 60-hour weeks for a human rights organisation. She is an ex-doctor, and (endemic to the profession, in my experience!) therefore thinks she is better than everyone else. (This final comment was when I told her to pipe down, and she apologised, while shrieking.)

I just feel like whenever I'm at her (perfect show-home) house, I'm playing a bit-part in a fantasy M&S advert - with her at the centre. I never feel comfortable there, because if a drink gets spilled or you get too close to some expensive item of homeware, all hell breaks loose. Don't get me wrong: she cooks, she hosts, that's very generous of her. But it's The Stepmum Show, constantly. She takes over the conversation, she's not funny (unforgivably, imo!), she's just incredibly UP herself - and, as I said, a massive snob. The above is the tip of the iceberg, honestly. She literally thinks people who weren't born into inherited wealth are basically lazy and stupid.

She's always been a bit weird with me tbh. E.g. when I was about 20, we had a blazing row about something or other, and she apologised afterwards and told me straight-up that she is intimidated by my intelligence. I mean honestly, wtf?! Even if you FELT it, would you SAY it?! But she does seem majorly insecure, like she had a very good education but was essentially educated above her intelligence because her parents were rich; she seems very uncomfortably with the fact (which I LOVE) that intelligence is pretty equally distributed among the population, and you cannot fucking BUY it, however hard you try.

I'm ranting, sorry!

Everyone who's met her agrees that she's awful, a snob, and wtf is Dad doing with her - but Dad seems, or acts, oblivious. As I said, he's from a very working-class, South Wales background. He never sees his friends anymore, really; they obviously think she's a stuck-up bitch. He is also more or a less a functioning alcoholic at this point. Getting slowly sozzled on posh wine while she runs the Stepmum Show and offends everyone, seemingly obliviously.

One more example of what she's like: a few years back, she and my Dad went on a weekend away for his best mate's 60th. She took one of his childhood friends aside and said: "Do you mind not talking about your childhood memories this weekend? I don't really like hearing about times before [Dad] and I were together."

My sister is a peacekeeper, plus Dad and stepmum do a huge amount to help with their kids (she is not entirely evil - she is very generous in helping with the kids). So she is not one to rock the boat. She also lives very close to them, and he helps her out a lot, sees her a lot, etc. I only live about 20 miles away, mind, but he never comes up here (and when he does, it's always with stepmum).

I'm wondering wtf to do, tbh. I love my Dad and I know he loves me. More than that, we LIKE each other; we get along great. But she just takes over every single interaction and it's really getting on my tits and affecting my relationship with him.

I'm not stupid: I know I'm not gonna change her and he's not gonna leave her. So I'm trying to think what to do that wouldn't just be me ranting. I was thinking of maybe writing him an email (presuming she doesn't check his emails as well as answer his phone, but who knows, honestly). Just explaining how I feel. Especially, explaining that I'm not avoiding HIM (I'm really worried that he thinks I am), that the problem isn't HIM, it's HER (though the problem is also, let's face it, him being a bit fucking useless in a Man way). And just asking if we can spend time together without her. But I don't want to make his life more difficult for him, either. But an email could help because he wouldn't immediately FORGET it (which he has a tendency to do with phone calls, probably because of the whole high-functioning alcoholic thing), and he could read back over it, and tbh I'm better at communicating via writing than in person / on the phone anyway, and he could have some time to process it?

Is this just a losing battle, do I just need to get over it?!

Thanks so much in advance for any advice / shared stories / etc! <3

OP posts:
Katemax82 · 28/12/2024 00:26

As a horrible stepmum myself I always encourage my husband to visit his sons without me so they can spend time with him...it's not hard

Haggisfish3 · 28/12/2024 00:28

My mum was also a stepmum and encouraged my step dad to stay in touch with his own children and spend time in his own with them. Without that push he, too, would have allowed those relationships to wither. It’s really sad. A stepparent who encourages independent time for the oh and their children, even if they dislike them, is a person to admire.

Poppyseeds79 · 28/12/2024 00:49

To be honest I read through this again OP and it reads like this...

You had your annual fight with step mum and 'told her to pipe down' - she apologised.

The initial time you met 'it didn't go well' - I'm assuming you had a go at them?

You had a blazing row in your 20's about something - she apologised.

Every year according to you. There is a row between you both, and then you and your sister inform your dad he must see you both without his wife.

All I'm seeing here is you kicking off, and her apologising. Sometimes it's good to take a step back and look at the common denominator... 🤔

TotalDramarama24 · 28/12/2024 01:05

She honestly doesn't sound bad from the examples you've given. You make yourself sound more like the snob than her. It just sounds like a personality clash and you despise her and everything about her and can't see past that.

Unfortunately this means that your Dad has been avoiding seeing you alone all this time (or "forgetting" you asked) as he knows you hate his wife and he doesn't ever want to put himself in a position where you reveal that to him or get any opportunity to get a single dig in, hence even bringing her in to phone calls. At his age he will certainly side with his wife of over 20 years and he's not daft, he can clearly see your simmering resentment of her.

harriethoyle · 28/12/2024 07:04

@LoveIsAVerb why are you only engaging with the posts that agree with you and not the many posts pointing out where you’re at fault? Did you just want an echo chamber?

IamnotSethRogan · 28/12/2024 07:23

Sounds very irritating. As a small start, could you start a new WhatsApp chat without her and just route all conversations through that? He asks you something on the group she's in and you answer through the one she's not in?

Similarly, could you book an event with tickets ? Maybe for his next birthday? "I've booked 3 tickets, for a surprise (so he can't book one for the step mother) for you, me and dsis"?

You shouldn't have to resort to stuff like this but talking hasn't really worked.

ueberlin2030 · 28/12/2024 07:28

You're judging her too. She can probably tell how much you dislike her.

ThatKhakiMoose · 28/12/2024 07:34

OP's descriptions of Stepmum's shrieking are making me 😂

Sorry OP, no advice here. I've had a million very difficult family members (at least, that's what it feels like) and you'll never, ever change them.

OnlyMabelInTheBuilding · 28/12/2024 07:40

I think you’re a reverse snob, as much as she is a snob.

LoveIsAVerb · 28/12/2024 08:06

360redred · 27/12/2024 23:55

Could you think of something to do together that she might not like? Maybe somewhere a bit grubby!!!! Ten Pin Bowling, Go Karting, Darts, Football, paintball. Maybe something you did together when you were a child? Buy him a voucher and take him out for the day? I don't understand why some women seem to want 100% of a mans love and don't want him to give a little bit to anybody else even a daughter who isn't a threat. I had this with my brother, his girlfriend saw me as a threat !!! He's my brother for goodness sake.

I love this idea! But unfortunately, she would (and has) tag(ged) along to any and all of those grubbier things.

One thing my Dad and I absolutely do have in common is a love of proper pubs (should I be encouraging him to drink? no. but will he anyway? yes!). There is this AMAZING pub in the place where he's from, and all his childhood friends go there, like we'll go in and he knows EVERYONE there, and also my own childhood friend now owns the place. We often go there for a drink over Xmas.

Guess what? She always tags along, makes bad jokes whenever one of his friend comes to join us (they've started to avoid joining us if she's there), takes over the conversation, and takes them both home early.

Dude, the point about the "seeing other women as a threat" - absolutely wild, right?! From the partners of YOUR FAMILY MEMBERS, wtf?!?!? Imagine seeing your LESBIAN STEPDAUGHTER as a threat?!?!?! Hope your bro's other half has chilled the f out now (I'm guessing she hasn't lol) x

OP posts:
LoveIsAVerb · 28/12/2024 08:07

Off topic, but I am really sick of half the keys not working on my keyboard; apologies, folks of MumsNet!

OP posts:
rookiemere · 28/12/2024 08:12

Gosh this sounds exactly like my aunt and Duncle. He is now sadly passed away ( huge story about that but not the time or place), but she too was the second DW who would not let the man have a minutes peace. She even insisted on walking round the golf course when DF came over and they played a round.

Very hard on my 3 cousins as even when they tried their best to get along, she would throw in some made up issues- once she wrote my eldest cousin a long letter about how badly they were feeding their DCs, and how she simply couldn't keep quiet any longer Hmm. I am utterly amazed at what they put up with to continue a relationship with their DF.
But ultimately he was the real issue, a weak man who refused to stand up for his own DDs. When asked why he never pushed back, he said he had been divorced once and didn't want to be again. Even when dying he asked my oldest cousin to look after his DW when he was gone, which in my mind was incredibly unfair of him.

So by all means steal some solo time with your DF, but remember that ultimately he is the one choosing to live like this and will put his DW before you when it matters.

LoveIsAVerb · 28/12/2024 08:13

Haggisfish3 · 28/12/2024 00:01

One thing I did find helpful was counselling to come to terms with the fact I would never gain the acceptance from him that I wanted. And not allowing people to say ‘he’ll regret it when he’s old’. I said ‘no, he won’t. And it’s really shit and makes me feel crap’. And I was right.

Thank you for this advice (cc @TheFishWithRainbowScales!) (hmm why are all the fish recommending therapy?!) 😅

I have been in therapy since, no word of a lie, the age of 12. Name the therapy modality, I have tried it. Not for Daddy Issues (!), particularly, but obviously your parents come up in 90% of sessions, don't they?! It's been helpful in some ways, not so much in others. It's just always gonna be a hard sell, right: to really, TRULY accept that your Dad is a bit shit?! Of course I don't want to believe that. But I also think it's probably true.

I don't think therapy will really help (just based on my experience - I mean, even Freud admitted that becoming aware of all your issues, the "curative value of self-consciousness", doesn't necessarily lead to SOLVING those issues) (then again, he was a massive cokehead who wanted to fuck his mum, wasn't he; should we believe him?!). But I do appreciate the practical suggestion - thank you! And I'm v glad it's helped you guys. I've seen it work wonders on loved ones, too!

ETA: @Haggisfish3 I'm so sorry about your Dad, that's so so shit. So you found therapy helpful, right? Or was it something else that helped you come to peace (or if not peace, acceptance of some kind) with the reality of the situation? x

OP posts:
LoveIsAVerb · 28/12/2024 08:17

Haggisfish3 · 28/12/2024 00:06

Honestly, the hurt is immeasurable. I suggested all the things others have here. None were taken up. The only time he ever paid me attention was when he worked abroad for months on end and she wasn’t with him to distract him. She was very very subtle about the way she worked. Nothing obvious or pinnable. But her disapproval of me (because of things I had said and done when a teenager and my mum and dad split up horribly and everyone behaved abysmally) ran deep and affected my relationship with my dad forever. Always happy to chat by pm if you want. ❤️

Edited

Ugh I'm so sorry. Also happy to chat via PM, I'm not sure how that works, mind; I just joined this site to post this one post! But maybe I'll get an email or something?! It is both reassuring and fucking heartbreaking to know I'm not alone in this. It seems fairly common, actually. Men are such weaklings. I'm sorry. xx

OP posts:
LoveIsAVerb · 28/12/2024 08:21

Singlemumtoadog · 28/12/2024 00:06

I don't have any useful advice but I am another one who is in this exact situation.
Relationship was the product of an affair, have since been married for over a decade. I don't think I still hold any resentment over the fact she was the OW but more it's just morphed into a realisation that we have nothing in common and I resent the time I have to spend with her. And because she clearly doesn't enjoy the time we spend together either- always looking for a reason to criticise my brother and I, insists on preparing grand meals that no one asked her to, then getting stressed over it, then expecting overwhelming gratitude for the meal she prepared. Then I just think why are we all doing this??? Just let my dad and I go out for a meal. I do think there's a level of insecurity and she feels as though she needs to minimise opportunities where we can talk about her.
And yes to the experience of feeling like all your comms are not with your Dad but the 'household of dad and step mum' which is actually just your step mum. Sometimes I've received a message where the grammar is too good and I know that it was in fact written by SM. Yes to calls being on speaker.
I could go on. I do hold my dad responsible for the situation. He has made a decision that he would rather let his relationship with his children suffer than have a polite but difficult conversation with his wife where he says 'Sometimes I would like to see my kids alone'. That's his choice.

Fuuuck, that does sound uncomfortably similar (are you my sister?!) 😅ALL of it. Wow.

I think holding your Dad responsible is the correct decision - and one that I'm going to work on myself. Weird how it's so much easier to see this when it's not YOU and YOUR DAD being discussed, right?! (Maybe not at all weird, in reality...)

Can I ask: Have you tried talking to him/her/The Household(!) about it? If so, what was said, what happened, etc.? Or did you try any other interventions, like any of the ones suggested on this thread (buy tickets for something, just you and him, etc. etc.)? What happened?

Thanks for commenting x

OP posts:
Boomer55 · 28/12/2024 08:22

You’re an adult, and she’s his wife. She will come first. Just be polite.

Calmhappyandhealthy · 28/12/2024 08:23

LoveIsAVerb · 27/12/2024 19:34

@Tandora On the "she just sounds annoying" thing - ha, yeah, possibly - so WWYD if you absolutely cannot stand someone, but seeing your father is contingent on seeing them at the same time?! (serious question!)

Suck it up

Your Dad is a weak wife controlled man

He won't change

Your step mum is who she is

She won't change

Deal with it

Suck it up.....see your Dad. Try to love him for who he is

NoSquirrels · 28/12/2024 08:24

KnoblesseOblige · 27/12/2024 22:08

What a lot of words you wrote, describing your stepmum and your feelings about her, and yet your dad's choice to be useless and choose not to see you alone is boiled down to literally one sentence, blaming it on him just Being a Man...

If he wanted to see you, he would.

I say this with care. My dad is the same. Their overbearing wives are an easy get-out for them, a smokescreen which absolves them of being good caring attentive parents to us. I have reduced contact with mine. Because it hurts so much. Because it really does boil down to him being an adult, and making this choice all by himself. You won't change him.

This is it. The crux of it. Sorry, OP.

LoveIsAVerb · 28/12/2024 08:25

chocolatespreadsandwich · 28/12/2024 00:12

No, but I also would struggle to think what to say tbh. I remember going tea total pretty rapidly when an ex's family brought out boxed wine for my first meal with them. I didn't say anything, but I was genuinely shocked people found the stuff drinkable.

Among her social group maybe everyone would assume it was a joke? I'd laugh if someone said their mum loved white lightning 🤷‍♀️ and it's kind of the wine equivalent

Tbf I am genuinely snobby about cider (like if someone offers me something fruity, I want to glass them) (JOKING, PEOPLE... but cider = APPLES, so help me God). I guess we all have our thing?!

I think people are making too much of the Echo Falls thing 😂😂😂 You guys are funny... It was meant to be a singular example to demonstrate a more general point, i.e. snobbery and rudeness to people's faces (people who are relationally obliged to be polite to you)! 😅

OP posts:
NoSquirrels · 28/12/2024 08:29

You’ve already identified times she’s not with your dad ie nephews football, when she’s with her DC.

When she’s away with her kids is the perfect time to plan something with you and your sister. And ask him round to do DIY - get your partner to tell you what she wants a hand with (even if she doesn’t really, she’ll have some ideas). Although I would say, my FIL’s wife was so joined at the hip she’d come along to hold his hammer for him…

TotemPolly · 28/12/2024 08:29

I don't think you have a step mum problem , you don't like her and I get that , but the problem lies with your Dad .
You've asked him many times to separately meet up without her , but he still turns up as a 2 with her .

That's weakness in his part , he should have set up boundaries with her that were none negotiable years ago and he chose not to for an easier life.

I'm a step Mum of an adult daughter of my dh , she was around 15 when we got together . If he / she wants contact without me , then fine , likewise with my children

With your situation , the timespan is tricky , it has been like it for many years , so hard for them ( him ) to change now . They've done what suits them , and not you .I

You could try to change it by telling him that for the next few months you only want to see him only , and when he wants to meet to contact you .I

That way you will push him into making that decision , and you will just have to wait and see if he commits to it . If not , you don't see your dad . Something you would just have to accept . He chooses her over you.

LoveIsAVerb · 28/12/2024 08:30

hazelnutvanillalatte · 28/12/2024 00:19

Just posting to say it's shit and I understand. It's a similar situation here, and it's really hard because I feel the family home has become 'her' home, and her family are invited much more than us, so we don't feel welcome anymore and the relationship has really suffered. DF is avoidant as well and just says 'don't worry it will all be fine,' and the wider family has basically said at least he's happy which I agree with. But at the same time I really miss our relationship. When her kids come they all go off together or send him away while they stay in the house, but we never get alone time together and even when we talk on the phone it's on loudspeaker.

Oh love, I'm sorry. This is EXACTLY it. So similar.

The family home... well, it was never MY family home, you know?! And I think Dad is a bit confused by why I don't go there that much. But it is very much her lair. She's a bit of a control freak, I think - ultimately stemming from insecurity. And he is similarly avoidant to yours - "don't worry, everything's fine, have another drink".

If he is happy (I don't know if he is tbh, but I hope so), then yes, I feel the same: that's great. But it doesn't make it any easier, does it? As you said, you just MISS them.

I miss him.

OP posts:
NoSquirrels · 28/12/2024 08:31

But OP - do NOT commit words to posterity anywhere but here. Or that letter/email/card will be held over you as ‘proof’ you hate her for the rest of all time. Take it from one who watched it play out. Flowers

LoveIsAVerb · 28/12/2024 08:35

Psychologymam · 28/12/2024 00:25

This - being cross because she has nice walking clothes and was a doctor is a little much - not exactly the 1% you’re dealing with. Wealthy people in the UK do not tend to work for the NHS in general! It does sound like every thing she does is annoying you and that might ease if you had time alone with your dad…. But he has to want that too, you can’t force him to spend time with you and blaming her for that feels unfair, however annoying she might be! I hope I’ve picked this up right but it also sounds like your sister is happy for her to care for her kids which must mean something - most parents are cautious about who they trust with their children.

Edited

I'm not really cross with her about her clothes, I'm just venting and being a dick, sorry! 😅I earn silly money these days, so these strange comments about jealousy (I've never understood that: the assumption that any class-based criticisms are about individual jealousy, rather than a fury at structural injustice?! but that's another convo lol) are way off the mark tbh... It's less the ££ itself and more the snobbery, the entitlement, the looking down on others with less money, etc., that I find unbearable.

Anyway!

Yes, you are right: she is a very safe pair of hands for the kids, she is GREAT with kids (I suspect this might be a control thing: I've noticed in my line of work that people who gravitate towards working with children and animals tend to have a bit of a control thing going on, i.e. they like working with those who can't advocate for themselves or answer back)... But no, she is not an awful horrendous person, she is not abusive, she defo has some good bits!

AND I really, strongly dislike her.

Do you guys not have anyone like that in your lives: people who are basically good-hearted people - not EVIL - but that you just... cannot fucking stand?! They just irritate the everloving fuck out of you?! It's not that rare among the people I know, but obv that isn't a double-blind randomised control trial lol

OP posts:
LoveIsAVerb · 28/12/2024 08:37

Katemax82 · 28/12/2024 00:26

As a horrible stepmum myself I always encourage my husband to visit his sons without me so they can spend time with him...it's not hard

My dude, you are NOT a horrible stepmum if this is how you are behaving! On the behalf of stepchildren everywhere, I salute you!!! 😅❤

OP posts: