AIBU to ask all the women on here with shitty nasty partners and husbands to really think about how they can escape them as soon as possible?

[Merryoldgoat]

I know divorce isn’t easy.
I know that abuse is hard and dangerous to extricate yourself from.
I know that your self esteem might be in the toilet.

But for the love of god please make plans so this is the last Christmas you are the only one with no gifts, had all of your hard work denigrated, your cooking sneered at, your appearance criticised and so on.

No one has a perfect relationship, but it’s perfectly possible to have a relationship without any of the above, and no relationship is better than a shit one.

Life is hard anyway. Don’t let it be harder than necessary.

My mum put up with a shitty relationship for 20 years. Then when she was finally ready to think about leaving she died. Years of knowing it was shit, wishing she could escape, putting up with the criticism and when she’d finally decided it was too late.

For you and your children if you have them, make a plan.

@WomanIsTaken All very eloquently put and hard to argue with. That said, I remain frustrated with women who continue their relationships and go on to have children with men who are walking red flags. Don't get embroiled with them. Walk away before you bring children into the picture. Build your own career. Remain financially independent. I know this is a simplistic view in some situations and I get that there are forced marriages and women with abusive upbringings who have poor boundaries and frames of reference but for the average woman who insists on remaining with a man who has red flags galore, yes, I'm out of patience.

@WomanIsTaken

I take on board your points. However there are women out there with common or garden ‘pricks’ who, whilst abusive are not dangerous and can be avoided and left without harm.

It’s only now as a 47 year old that I realise all of the shit I witnessed as a child was a variety of abuse and toxicity and there were lots of adults complicit with it.

My stepdad was very clearly useless and lazy and emotionally abusive. That was obvious to me as a 9 year old. My mum had plenty of support and could have left but instead stopped working, moved us in with him and had two kids. Our life was chaos and their legacy continues in my sisters.

Absolutely there are women in dangerous relationships who need a plan and help from services and evidence etc. I do not dispute that and would never presume it’s as simple as ‘just leave’ but how many threads do you read here where a working woman with a child has got some useless bastard living with her, not contributing and bringing no value? Who could easily be kicked out and moved on from.

We need to help women in danger but also stop normalising the no Christmas presents, being unnecessarily rude to friends and family, not contributing to the house, not supporting maternity leave arseholes that are endemic on here.

Maybe we should: stop saying all ‘children are blessings’ when baby no. 4 is on the way when he was a prick after baby no. 1; accept no children is better than bringing a child into a toxic abusive relationship because you’re 39 and desperate to be a mother; understand being single is better than being with a lazy dickhead.

Helping and supporting includes not colluding with the magical thinking some women indulge in.

Can't agree more on that.
I include myself in this and several women whose stories I know of or have heard, where we as women, I hate to say 'we are guilty of' but I mean in that we wait to see/hear more. We wait to see if things get better, they don't and even if they did, it doesn't change what the man has already done.

For some including myself it's what I grew up with, but for others who had a different upbringing etc. It's about learning, that when one thing happens that's it gone!
There is too much consideration that goes in to it, we doubt ourselves or we think it's only a small thing they have done.
So we wait it out and surprise they do something again and it's a bigger thing, but we hang on yet again.
The cycle of abuse is terrible, and also when you are in love as you think, you want things to be ok so you live in this ideal world, which it's nothing like that.

You aren't lucky it's supposed to be the norm, this is again why some men doing the bare minimum or a bit more get praised.
You'd like to think you wouldn't put up with things, but you don't know. Also those types of men look for certain individuals, it's not about the woman not being strong enough or laying down boundaries, it doesn't work with an abusive man!
The only one you can have, is that you don't get involved full stop, ideally.

They test the woman and especially the ones they see are vulnerable or not in a good position. They see how far they can go and when they get past one point, it goes on and on.

Some men should NEVER leave their mummys.

@Redruby2020

The number of people ready to worship at the altar of my DH is off the scale. He IS lovely and brilliant and kind but no one is praising me for the normal shit I do (and they shouldn’t).

Luckily he thinks it’s ridiculous as well.

Well unless they are homeless, they live somewhere, but yes I know what you mean.
Some are in house shares or living with family.
They don't all move in as such, but stay some days/nights at the gf's and wherever else they live.
Also not all don't pay up or live for free.

But with that I have heard women complain about them not paying more, or for other things.
Or making excuses rather keep them in their home than not have them at all.

Plus all in all, one particular example I can refer to, the guy still did well, because what he paid per month to live in the woman's flat, he would of paid more for a room in a shared house.
Plus to have your cooking cleaning washing done.
His main motive for the whole thing from 'dating' reeling her in, to obtaining her address without her permission to moving himself in, was to get legal stay in the UK.
He since left thank god but years of damage done.

Exactly, i have said things in a similar way on some of my comments on this post. It really isn't that easy! We can all talk in hindsight but at the time when you are in it, it is not easy at all.

Three new threads just this morning from women stuck with idiots.

I just hate it.

@Merryoldgoat

I very clearly said I know it’s not easy.

And I’m not really especially well-intentioned.

Other women being miserable doesn’t affect me - I’m in a completely non-abusive relationship with an equal partner. I’m fine.

I’m just saying that if you’re in an untenable position make a plan.

That is just so rude, you don't understand abuse because as you state you are in a completely non abusive relationship. Even those who think they wouldn't get caught up with a man like that, can.
You don't make a plan because when you are stuck in it, that's not on your mind. Yes when you speak out making a plan will be mentioned which can help towards that happening, but not otherwise.
It takes ALOT to leave.

Only someone who hasn't gone through it can speak this way, you haven't got a clue.

Even non abusive men do that, that woman has a home benefits in work, they don't need to do much.
I know one who because he lives with his family, and it was no longer possible to take his kids there for over night contact, he asked his gf if he could have his kids at her place.
She was in other accommodation for 6 years waiting to be housed, so though I don't think he sat and waited 6 years for her to be housed permanently, I do wonder what he was doing with his wages all those years, and what he would have done if she had got stuck where she was for even longer?!

So basically, you have to put up with it and hope to god some "left wing" government (whatever that might mean) will enact legislation to improve things.

No wonder the Tories win more elections than Labour.

That is just so rude, you don't understand abuse because as you state you are in a completely non abusive relationship. Even those who think they wouldn't get caught up with a man like that, can.
You don't make a plan because when you are stuck in it, that's not on your mind. Yes when you speak out making a plan will be mentioned which can help towards that happening, but not otherwise.
It takes ALOT to leave.

Only someone who hasn't gone through it can speak this way, you haven't got a clue.

What do you know about my past @Redruby2020 ?

I grew up in a house with an abusive step parent.

I witnessed domestic violence from other family members.

I was exposed to alcoholism.

I was sexually abused by a family member.

I grew up having experienced the full gamut and the effects are still present.

It’s not easy to leave but it’s essential that one does to avoid the generation trauma and damaging any children who experience it.

@Mrsredlipstick

My late mother was a police officer working in DV.
Her advice:
have your own money always.
Do not have children without a marriage. Make sure you leave immediately if you are subject to violence.

Great idea.
Well many had jobs their own money, they had kids within marriage, hasn't made it any easier from what I've witnessed and experienced.
Depends, does this mean violence as in physically or any type of domestic violence?
Some women from older generations seemed to have been taught or told themselves if their husband was physically violent they would leave.
This is *ullshit. So they put up with everything but that, plus the man breaking things, hitting things etc.
So what were they waiting for?!

It's not as clear cut to say first thing and you leave, clearly if every woman did that and could that would end all abuse.
If you are unlucky to get with an abusive man, I've never really heard of anyone upping and leaving after the first thing happens.

And that a ‘good father’ is someone who treats the mother of his children with dignity and respect. These are mutually inseparable from each other.

It's not as clear cut to say first thing and you leave, clearly if every woman did that and could that would end all abuse.
If you are unlucky to get with an abusive man, I've never really heard of anyone upping and leaving after the first thing happens.
@Redruby2020
I agree. In order to leave at the first sign of any problems you need to be an assertive confident woman, the sort of woman who will not defer to a man. A domineering predatory man will not be interested in such a woman, his instincts and impulses will mean that he is drawn to women whom he feels he is able to dominate and exploit.

One huge problem with this is that abusive husbands can legally have their children 50:50. Unless a woman can prove the man has severely physically abused the children and get a court to agree, then the court will grant the man 50:50 as a starting point.

THIS is one of the huge reasons women don’t leave abusive fathers. At least if they are around they can protect their children to some extent from the father’s anger/moods/violence/ mild to moderate neglect/ emotional abuse. The threshold for men not to have their children is exceedingly high

@Redruby2020 I agree with you, but really, pointing this out just makes people double down, like @Itsalwaysfools .

OP, I can see from your posts that you experienced significant DV and ACEs as a child I'm sorry this happened to you, and so pleased you have found a good man with whom to share your life.
When you refer to the "common or garden ‘pricks’ who, whilst abusive are not dangerous and can be avoided and left without harm." I think it's important to acknowledge that a) a woman can't really know whether her partner is going to be the type to accept a break up and agree to dissolve the family peacefully, or whether he will turn into someone with a 'fuck around and find out' mentality who'll pull out the big guns as she attempts to exit and b) what one might assume is a man fitting your description based on what a woman might say about her relationship may be far from the truth ‐there might be many things she is not disclosing. Being a victim of DV, including coercive control, is humiliating and degrading in part because other women 'rapidly run out of patience' or 'can't understand how' or any number of such things while, all the while, the woman in question is tying herself in knots trying to make safe decisions for herself and her children.

@Nc546888 's post sums up a key issue.

I think it is sneaky victim blaming to say that abusive men target 'vulnerable' women.

Some men target strong women as friends/family are more likely to see the man as the 'henpecked' victim and be on his side so the woman is isolated from friends and family and has no support if and when things get worse.

Why do you think men are more likely to become overtly abusive during pregnancy and after childbirth, if their partner is ill or bereaved? They've already spent years portraying themselves as perfect and their wives as unreasonable and demanding.

Temporary vulnerability is part of the life experience. It does not invite abuse from the person you believed would support you.

I was recovering from c-section when my not so lovely DH at the time said 'I don't want to hit you but I don't know what else to do'.

It is very hard to deal with abuse when you are temporarily vulnerable and if you manage to become strong again, the abuse disappears and the abuser blames you or your hormones. Or can't remember it. And forgives you. And then lovebombs you. Mindfuck.

Agree with pretty much everything you've said OP. I do think that as women we need to stop pushing and supporting the narrative that being attached to a man and having children is the be all and end all. The any-man-is-better-than-no-man thinking leads to acceptance of terrible things.

So many women are 'friends' - IRL and on social media - with predatory males.

I agree with everything you're saying, OP.

I also think that women who are not in a relationship with an abuser/have not yet been, ought to look at the red flags of the men they keep close in one way or another. A man, single or not, following scores of women on SM and liking their pics/subscribing to dodgy pages is a womanising scumbag. Men who have had multiple failed relationships and cannot/does not see their DC? Why associate with this?

Some men want to be both the destroyer and then the rescuer.

It's all about power and control.

This is alien to how most people live and not at all easy to spot. Because it is abnormal and cloaked. We can all spot an obvious wrong 'un'. Just because we have been played it doesn't make us stupid.

I stayed far longer than I should have because I felt ashamed and stupid. I thought my DC were better off if I stayed because he told me he would never do the same to them because he loved them.

To my shame I was on the floor welcoming death before my DS persuaded me to leave. Women's aid freedom program helped me realise there is life after 30 years of abuse.

It's not easy to leave.

Well that must be a deliberate misinterpretation @FelixtheAardvark or perhaps you need to read it again.

No, as a DV survivor I can attest to that, it's not easy to leave.

Saying that, too many women give excuse after excuse to a cycle of lying, cheating, insidious degradation and general contempt that they or other women receive.

Perhaps I look at it from the otherside now because I escaped. But since, I have dated briefly an out and out narcissist who also turned out to be an addict with a criminal history and has framed himself as the 'rescuer' while also going out of his way to destroy me because I caught on it and left.

Don't ever ignore the red flags. Don't ever tolerate lies. Don't accept the cycle of abuse. Don't let anyone who is at war with themselves destroy your peace.
Walk away and stay away.

Yep.

You don't realise it is bad because he didn't beat you to a pulp and put you in hospital. He only did ..Boiled frog.

Not until someone reacts to the "only did" with horror do you realise it might not be normal. Especially if you grew up in a dysfunctional family.

Also messages about how bad it is for children to vbe from a broken home are more prevalent than those about DV in homes. You worry about the children being alone with him thanks to the courts if you left, you want to be there to protect them in case he hurts them.

You don't want them to be used as a weapon or revenge.