Heartbroken-greedy aunt wwyd

[Noihin]

My mum was one of 5 siblings, and when my GPs died over 20 years ago, the siblings divided their parents belongings amongst each other. GPs were not wealthy but had some nice things. My mum got their wedding silver. Mum was really happy and we used them every Christmas. It was a big deal for her. I was also close to my GPs.

As soon as my mum died 10 yrs ago (she is the only sibling that has passed and died quite young) my mums sister started to mention she wants the silver and it belongs to her. We, my mums children have not divided her belongings at all. They are still in the house with my dad, and we prefer it that way. I told her no. And that we use it, and it is part of our tradition.

I have grown really close to this aunt since my mums death. She has no children of her own and has been a huge part of our lives with babysitting, borrowing me her car etc. I have thought we have a genuine love for each other.

Now, i'm at my dads and i saw that the silver is gone. My dad said aunt came and demanded it last summer and he gave it her. He says its only materia and he doesn't think its right but he doesn't care.
I am deeply hurt. She went behind my back to do this, and has not once mentioned this to me all this time. I texted her to ask why she did this and she turned defensive and nasty. A side i've never seen if her before. I am heartbroken. I feel betrayed and manipulated. The monetary value is not much, but its the greed, betrayal and disregard, as well as seeing the shady side of her that has shaken me. I don't know what to do. Im very bad at keeping up the appearances if someone has hurt me. On the other hand my children will miss her if i stop seeing her.

Ummm. In law (unless your mother left a will) It was your father's to do whatever he decided to do. He may well have decided that it was worth it to shut her up. If it was me I would chop her off after one final message saying that you want nothing more to do with her and telling her why. I think even if she gave the silver back, I'd never trust her again. Not sure how old your children are but if they ask I would tell them in an age appropriate way that you are not friends any more. I have to say that I wonder why he didn't discuss it with you or your sibs or even tell you. Its a sad and horrible situation though.

The OP has already clarified that she's not in the UK so UK inheritance law doesn't apply to this situation.

I don't know what jurisdiction the OP lives in, and perhaps she doesn't wish to clarify, but in French law, for example, children inherit a higher percentage of an estate than a spouse does. It's called 'forced heirship'. I don't know which jurisdiction would disinherit a spouse entirely in favour of the children, though.

OK, so - when your grandmother died intestate, everything passed equally to your mother, your aunt, and three more siblings. They divided it up among themselves. Your mother got the silver, your aunt and the others got things of roughly equal sentimental and financial value, by consensus.

Then your mother died, also intestate, and you and your siblings similarly inherited 100% of her belongings. Ten years have passed and you still have not divided them up; they're all still at your dad's house (I'm assuming that's where your mother lived when she dies, so they're just where they've always been).

Your dad should tell the aunt that he made a mistake and ask her to return the silver as it is jointly owned by you and your siblings and was not his to give. But maybe reconsider storing your stuff at his house long-term now that you know he's likely to give it away.

As for the aunt, you can cut contact for any or no reason if you want but if you are not going to do that, refusing to hear her side of the story and insisting on your own will likely put a strain on both sides of that relationship. Why not hear her out and if you're still not convinced of her claim, reiterate to her that the silver was not your dad's to give (nor yours, since at the moment it's equally "owned" by each person in your group of siblings) and she must give it back?

Side note - There are some (not many anymore) legal systems where the surviving spouse inherits all or part of the liquid assets and material property passes directly to the children - usually it's classified as something like "ancestral property", and things like family silver could fit that description. I think it's most common now in areas that use Sharia law. But even in England and Wales (before the reforms of 2014) there were cases where the surviving spouse received a cash allowance and goods passed to the children.

Legally the set is not even mine, because my siblings and i have not yet felt comfortable going through the process of who gets what. Just like my mum and her siblings, we have left the family home as it is and thought we would sit down and go through it when our dad passes.

If aunt had been clear and said to me she wishes i would take it for example to keep in the family, i could have had that discussion with my siblings. Or we could have agreed she gets to keep it if she leaves it to us in her will. But being dishonest and hassling my dad like this is not ok in my book.

So actually you don't know what was said or agreed at the time and your aunt could be right.

My dad has a new partner. They dont live together and are not married but my aunt views this as a betrayal of her sister. I don't. Im glad he has someone and is not lonely. And she is a nice person

YANBU to be upset that you weren't consulted about the silver. Your aunt should have at least mentioned it to you, even though it belongs to your DF.

however, your update about your DF forming a new relationship is a significant one to consider. Do you think she has taken possession of the silver for fear of losing it from the family if your DF has formed a new relationship. It happens so often that a new relationship changes a lot of decisions that take place, including gifts, wills/inheritance etc

why don't you broach the subject with her honestly and openly to find out if this was her concern.

the other thing to bear in mind is that your DC may have no interest in the silver. My DH inherited all his parents' silver and it became quite a burden, it takes up a huge amount of space and as the generations evolve, collections of things have less meaning than they used to do when people stayed in the same house theIr whole life.

maybe a conversation with your aunt to understand things more fully might mend bridges, as it doesn't sound like you've had a proper 1-to-1 discussion as adults. It would be a shame to let some objets d'art come between you, even if they have sentimental value.

ETA apologies, I haven't read the whole thread, hopefully not a repeat of what's already been posted.

Exactly what I thought.

I don't know what was said because i was underaged at the time and not there. But my mum was very happy. She even took the set to an antiques roadshow type of show and no one said anything! I know my mum felt like the unlucky one of the siblings all her life. She wasnt the favourite and was given all the hand-me-down clothes etc. So i guess for her to get this set was a big deal and that's why she would mention it a lot.

So, this is not about the legalities, but about the fact that i feel the right to leave a sentimental family heirloom has been stolen (quite literally) from my mum. And the fact that someone i trusted, knowingly did something against my/our will and prioritised their want above the relationship we have. Which makes me question the genuinity of the relationship.

It would be helpful to state the actual country. In France for example, if there is no will then a sibling can inherit half and the spouse half.

What is it with some posters trying to discredit everyone whose story is a bit different to what you know from your own experience? Ive seen this a lot lately. People asking for help being called journalists or teenagers making stuff up. Not cool.

Do you have any idea how long it takes to hand knit socks! Sock yarn can cost a fortune too. I love my knitted socks and I've never knitted any for anyone else as they take soo long to do.

I do have an idea. I also knit. Besides i thanked her for the present and wished happy Christmas regardless. I am hurt. Not revengeful or angry.

She has shown you who she is. She has grabbed and lied, disrespected both your parents and you, and is now defensive and rude about it. Why would you want your children to spend time with someone like that? I wouldn’t hesitate to block her and move on. Invest the energy in your Dad.

That is disgusting behaviour from your aunt. It’s actually unforgivable, I just couldn’t get past it. The silver belonged to your mother and should have been passed to her children, she’s taken something which doesn’t belong to her and I would insist she returns it or the relationship is done.

If anyone has stolen it, isn't it your dad who gave it away when it wasn't his to do so?

She didn't steal anything. She was given it by your father because he doesn't care or have any sentimental feelings about it. Did your father know it was not his to give away? Or does he think it was his.

The OP hasn't clarified which jurisdiction excludes spouses to the advantage of children. I'd love to know which one it is.

Why didn’t your dad say something to you at the time, when your Auntie came round for the silver??

Me too! I made a similar point in another post after the one you've quoted. Even French law doesn't disinherit a spouse entirely, AFAIK.

I agree with this. I'd give her a chance I think. Yes she's shown a sign you haven't seen before but she felt caught out and handled the situation badly.

I think you'd be cutting off your nose (and your DC's noses) to spite your face if your aunt is usually lovely. Going NC for this would be silly. I think I'd just have offered the cutlery to her when she first mentioned it. (But I'm a bit soft.)

If she was concerned about the silver going out of the family, the aunt could have told OP that she was going to make sure that the silver went eventually to op and her siblings by taking it back and willing the silver to op. The fact that she went behind op's back at a time when it wouldn't be easily missed speaks volumes.

She's got no guarantees that she will ever see the silver again even if she keeps up contact with the aunt.

In op's shoes I would let df know how hurt you are by his actions and if there is anything similar that he might let go of, tell him what you would want to treasure when the time comes.

With the aunt I would wait for her to initiate contact. She may go lc now she has the silver. If she does make contact, tell her how heartbroken you are about her taking away your link to your grandparents, and ask her why she felt you shouldn't have something to remember them by. I would find it difficult to regain the former relationship with her.