To think you can't go over the top at Christmas in these circumstances

[starlymarly]

Some context first, DH and I have one DD, she's now 22 but when she was 18 she entered into a relationship with a man who was 16 years older we were not happy about this, she was on her gap year, she was a bright girl, AAAB at a-level, a place at uni waiting for her. It was the Covid year so she decided to wait and go to uni the next year and spend the year working.
Anyway she met this man, 16 years older. The relationship spiralled very quickly and within a couple of months DD was pregnant and insisting she would be keeping the baby and moving in with him. Soon after that she was going to be moving back to his home country with him which she did not long after our DGD was born.
We were walking a tightrope, we were devastated this is what our DDs life had become but equally keen not to be too loud as she was pushing us away more and more.
For the last 2 and a half years the relationship with our DD was nothing more than some text messages, pictures and a FaceTime once every 3/4 months. We'd make plans to visit, book flights and then something would come up and she couldn't possibly see us. It was heartbreaking and we knew something wasn't right but there wasn't much we could do. She always refused to give us an exact address of where she was staying and I knew if we pushed too hard she'd shut us off completely.
Anyway fast forward to last month. DD called me sobbing saying she was in a hotel with DGD and he'd booked flights back to the uk for her for not the next day but the day after that. He had been cheating and the relationship had been very abusive, this was the first time DD had said it out loud to us. He then basically told her he wanted her gone and not to see her again. He let her bring sentimental things (DGDs first shoes or picture albums etc.) and some clothes, but no toys and not enough clothes for anyone to live in.

We borrowed a car seat and picked DD and DGD up from the airport. This was all about 4 weeks ago now. We are in a position to help DD, we have a small 2 bed rental and the last tenants had just moved out, so we are redecorating it for DD now. We have gotten her therapy, DGD enrolled in nursery at a lovely local prep school and a place offered for reception next year which we will fund and we are helping DD with reapplying to uni.

Now the issue, between DD and I we have gone wild on DGD Christmas. She has more or less nothing here. We picked up some small bits which she plays with now but no big toys. I don't want to count how much I've spent as it must be crazy.
We've got a bike and scooter, dolls house and all the accessories, play kitchen and play food, baby doll, with pram/highchair etc. My sister who lives in America is bringing her an American Girl Doll over as a gift from her. We've bought Lottie Dolls and Disney Princess dolls, dressing up clothes, books, so many books and then little things like playdoh, puzzles and magnetic play sets.

DH thinks we've way over done it, left nothing for her to get in the future and set an expectation that Christmas will always be like this. I think in the awful circumstances and the fact she has nothing at all really means we can't over do it this year.
Obviously it will be a lot to open so we are just going to put the play food in the kitchen or the furniture in the dolls house so it's one item rather than 5/6.

But AIBU to say we can't over do it this year? Her birthday isn't for months so it makes more sense to ensure she has lots of toys to play with now.

OP, you are all so lucky that DD ex-partner has let her take the DGD. I was in a similar situation as your DD, terrified of losing my baby. Go wild in year one.

I've not read all the posts so excuse me if I seem a bit harsh.

What strikes me is that there is a danger of over-indulging your grandchild in perhaps the same way you did your daughter.

It looks as if you gave you daughter everything- an expensive education, money, and you're wealthy (owning another property as a landlord.)

The way she 'repaid you' was not to listen to you but to leave home in a teenager-ish way, sabotage her education, and treat you very badly.

Maybe consider that by indulging your GD like this, you're setting a bar that will be difficult to lower.

A child of 4 (or whatever ) will not appreciate so many toys all at once.

It's not teaching her value, nor will she get the best out of all those toys if she has them all at once.

Put some away and give them to her gradually.

Just because you 'can' do something doesn't mean you have to.

You sound wonderful, so caring and supportive. Many people can only dream of having a mum like you. I totally understand why you have gone on a mega gifr giving spree, but as others have already said, it will be really overwhelming for the little one and trimming all that lot down by returning some ot it and then staggering the rest would be a way forward. As I am sure you know children especially very young ones have no recollection of their gifts in general. What matters is feeling loved and safe . Hope you all have a great Christmas

Firstly, you sound like wonderful parents. DD is very, very lucky to have you. On the presents, in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter one way or the other. However, you may be setting your own expectations a little high and inadvertently putting pressure on DGC to make this YOUR best xmas ever. Kids do pick up on this. He/ she may not express the joy or gratitude you might want. They might be overwhelmed or a host of other emotions. Hopefully not, but regardless of the number of presents, keep expectations low key and let DGC's mood guide proceedings.

Possibly save some things for birthday? However I would give her everything 🙂

While I understand where you're coming from.

What we failed to provide DD with was our presence. The expensive school (though she was actually in state school for secondary so not particularly relevant) wasn't what pushed her away. We never spoiled DD as a child. She didn't have lots of toys (though a play kitchen, baby dolls and fashion dolls she did have, she just got them over a few years).

What DD didn't have was our presence, when she was a teen we both worked 7.30/8-6/7. She took herself to clubs, she made her own dinner often between 13-18, did homework herself.
That's what pushed her away not the expensive school or the toys. She wanted to be loved and we had failed to show her that properly.

Seriously, having read all of your posts, I think you need to be very careful that you don't go OTT the other way with both your D and GD.

You say you were absent parents, working in the City, which has made you wealthy but maybe neglectful.

The price you paid was your DD turned to another man (more a father figure) for love and affection. And it back fired.

Please don't go to the other extreme with your GD.
There is a balance. You can't 'buy' love or forgiveness either.

I think you too should consider therapy because the family dynamics are ricocheting from one extreme to the other.

Your DD is very lucky to have you there to help her sort her life out but be aware it doesn't come over as controlling. Yes, of course she's happy and grateful, but both of you need to learn from what happened before.

Please do consider talking to a professional about what's happened.
Good luck and enjoy Xmas.

Edited having seen your update- I still stand by you taking time to reflect :)

Oh absolutely cautious on balancing that and I've been in therapy for 3 years (I had a total breakdown and left my job quite dramatically when DD told me she and my tiny little newborn grand baby who'd I had only met once were moving to Qatar). I still see my therapist once a month and as her availability opens up more I'll be increasing this to at least every fortnight.

I was brought up in abusive family. My father bullied my mother and my brother and I. It was a pretty miserable existence. At Christmas my mum used to get us amazing, very generous presents ( I had to hide them from my friends as I was a bit embarrassed at the abundance of gifts). Now, looking back I realise mum was overcompensating for our upbringing and it makes me love her even more than I already do

That doesn't sound that over done at all... it a pretty normal Christmas.

I mean a Dolls house, doll, pram, scooter, books, dress up clothes, play-doh, magnetic set etc... doesn't sound mad at all thats a fairly normal list.

I mean it is a few 'big' presents with a house, kitchen and bike but if you have nothing and are starting from scratch thats fine and you are making up for several missed years. If you must hold back one I would keep the bike maybe then do it for birthday instead but since we a talking a toddler here the bike can't even be that big right? Its not like a 5 speed adult BMX.

On mumsnet you will have people clutching pearls though because their kid get one pricey present of clothing (for their child's very expensive exclusive hobby) and a stocking of necessaries like toothbrushes, underwear and socks and cries of 'commercialism' which I have never come across in real life.

OP you are describing most kids childhoods.

Why are you feeling guilty for doing what you thought was best at the time.

You worked hard to ensure she had a roof over her head and food on the table.

You did not push her into an abusive relationship at all.

I say this gently as I think you sound like a good mum but you are overdoing it to make up for what you believe were mistakes and now DD is doing exactly the same.
Can you not see a pattern?

Absolutely spoil DD and DGD but learn to not feel guilty for things that you shouldn’t feel guilty for and DD needs to learn the same.

Throwing money at something doesn’t make it go away.
It doesn’t buy forgiveness and it doesn’t buy love.

The best thing you can do as a parent, is welcome your DD back with open arms - which you’ve done.
The rest of it like the flat and presents are great, but they’re nothing compared to your support.

Stop feeling guilty.
Reduce the wrapped presents so DGD doesn’t feel overwhelmed.
And most importantly, have an absolutely amazing day by being all together which is the most important thing.

I’m going to be honest and probably get flamed for it but keep the lot and have a fantastic Christmas.
I adore Christmas. It’s the one time of the year we go nuts as a family. When my children were small I would buy them everything that was age appropriate and it was wonderful. Since my grandchildren arrived I’ve done the same for them.
I don’t regret any of it at all. None of them have turned out to be brats so it all worked out fine.
If you can afford it then go for it. Seeing their little faces is just priceless and they’re small for such a short time and I think it’s worth every penny.
Wishing you all a fantastic Christmas x

I think I you should hold some of it back for another time. When they receive too much on Christmas Day it gets overwhelming and they can’t actually enjoy any of it.

@starlymarly

Do I understand correctly that you are giving DD the house? If so, may I suggest that you just add her to the deeds already in your & her father's name. It will give her a sense of ownership but also protect her.

You already realize that giving her a large sum of cash may make her 'prey' to fortune hunters/cocklodgers, but so can sole ownership of the house. She could be pressured to add a man's name to the deeds or borrow against the house at his instigation.

By having the deeds in all your names, my assumption is that she can't add anyone's name to them without your consent. That may serve as a deterrent to unscrupulous men as well as an excuse if she does come under pressure.

Sorry I disagree.

I've had a lot of therapy.
We missed parents evening.
We missed every school play.
My parents took her to every sports competition, even then they sat in the car.

I did fail my DD. We were extremely absent and at times selfish. Pretending this isn't the case does no one any good.

Go for it OP, it’s been a terrible time. Your DD will never forget that Christmas she came home and her parents scooped her up and gave her love warmth and a roomful of toys for her daughter.

Maybe it’s OTT but sod it. I really hope you have a wonderful time. I’m sure with your support your daughter will get back on track.

I think you sound lovely! And they deserve to be a bit "spoilt" to be honest. If it's not breaking your bank then I really wouldn't worry. Kids barely remember one Xmas to another so probably won't expect loads in following years

@Dita73 I totally agree with you.

Oh shush! You are being utterly ridiculous. Landlords have no more obligation to justify what they spend their money on than you or I do. And if you bothered reading her posts properly, she says how much she and her DH worked when their DD was young, and how much her DH is still working. She’s said nothing to suggest that she left her former tenants sitting in the cold with no hot water because she spent their rent money on trips to Vegas rather than fix the boiler, so keep your judgement to yourself unless you want to disclose your occupation and your shopping habits so we can all judge whether you’ve made worthy purchases.

OP, I completely understand why you and DD might have gone a bit over the top this year, but I think it’s fine. Maybe explain to her that FC has bought her a bit more this year because he knows she had to leave all her toys behind, so it won’t be like this next year, and then no unreasonable expectations will be set. I very much doubt she’ll be counting next year’s presents and comparing them with this year’s. I’d also be led by her about how overwhelming she’ll find it. If she opens three gifts and doesn’t want to open anymore, then push them out of the way and play with her, and she can open more when she feels like it. It doesn’t matter if it takes her an hour or a month. All that really matters is that she feels happy and loved, which I’m sure she will.

I think this is lovely. But make sure not to set an expectation that this is what every Christmas will be. Getting the stuff is fine. Showing love and kindness after a horrible time, is wonderful. But perhaps spread out some of the giving? Have some as am amazing first Christmas all together, and others as 'new home' gifts? And so on?

I think, in the circumstances, yes you can overdo it for Christmas.

I don’t think it’s about spoiling either of them. It’s about giving it time for things to sink in and get a feel for where they are, for what’s happening. Time to make decisions and, for your DD especially, the space to become her own person again. She’s just spent years being controlled by an older man, now you’re throwing things at her and directing her life. I’m not suggesting you’re trying to control her, I’m sure your intention is to give her the best. But she’s an adult who hasn’t had the normal ramp up into adult decision making and she needs space.

Getting the things your DD and DGD need isn’t overdoing it. But getting every toy DGD might want all at once is overwhelming. Getting so many clothes it feels like there’s no room to buy more as she learns what she likes and what she needs for her new life here can be stifling. Equally for your DD, getting everything all at once leaves less room for her to find herself.

So yes, I think you can overdo it and you should perhaps listen a bit more to your DH if he has a more measured approach. Providing the support is fantastic and very much what she needs, just not everything all at once and, perhaps (though it’s not clear how choices have been made), with DD doing more of the instigating/choosing.

What DD didn't have was our presence, when she was a teen we both worked 7.30/8-6/7. She took herself to clubs, she made her own dinner often between 13-18, did homework herself.
That's what pushed her away not the expensive school or the toys. She wanted to be loved and we had failed to show her that properly.

Sadly this is not unusual and most parents would tell themselves they work long hours to provide for their children and that the material benefits outweigh the absence. It's also considered that older children don't need a parent's presence as much as babies but I disagree, teenagers may not show they need you but underneath they really do.
I was brought up like that although much less well off. Parents out at work, I came home alone every day and made dinner, did laundry and housework. My parents were never there, had no idea what I did. I made sure to do it differently for my own DC. One of us was there morning and after school and throughout school holidays.

It sounds like you will be present for your Dgd growing up. I hope your DD appreciates your support.

You sound very honest. It was good for me to hear you talk about the impact of being absent during your child’s life. I wouldn’t overthink the presents too much, the child is young, she’ll enjoy the day, she’ll have fun. It’s mostly adults who make a big deal about presents. Kids don’t really realise how expensive or generous the presents are. They just play with them.

It doesn't sound over the top to me between 3 family members, it sounds fine.

I’m with you , I’ll do exactly the same, glad you have your DD and grandchild back, enjoy