Why are so many men single

[Winter2028]

I know quite a few single men in their 30s. They all have jobs and their own properties. Their friend groups are also overwhelmingly single men; a single friend of mine who is a civil servant used to live in a houses where where all the men had similar jobs and all struggled to find girlfriends (the flatmates apparently railed a lot against 'feminazis'); another friend of mine (late 30s) socialises with a group of 6 friends where only 2 are in relationships (they are all nearly 40) and the rest are single not through choice.

This creates an impression that its hard to get a girlfriend and its because women have more choices and are more picky today (my friend don't think this is a bad thing but it also means they support things like government sponsored dating!) These men are probably not an anomaly as the rise of the far right is apparently correlated with the rise in single young men. However as a woman my impression is that many poor men are in relationships (my dh was a penniless graduate student when we married in our early 20s and his sisters also married men who were poor in their 30s; one of my SIL even had to share a hotel room with her MIL and baby and DH and she she is planning on having another baby with him). Sadly many abusive men are in relationships.

So what is the reason why so many men are not in relationship when women's expectations are hardly sky high. Is it lack of social opportunities (they do go on dates but my impression is the dates don't go anywhere). Is it lack of charisma (many uncharismatic men I know are also in relationships)?

Are there? Because in my experience, older, divorced women are quite the opposite of desperate when it comes to wanting a man ever again

Bizarre response

If society could move on from the concept that marriage and children are the be all and end all of life, there'd be a lot fewer posts on MN. That view is overly prevalent in both sexes.

i am 32 this year and when I was in my 20s most people I knew were in relationships or happily single.. it really wasn't a thing that many people struggled to find a partner and were so unhappy about it.

Some of what you say may be true but l think there’s an age effect colouring your view.
It's easier for people to find relationships or casual sex organically in their 20s. They go out more etc. When people get into their 30s they’re more likely to be concerned about being single (if they don’t want to be, and most people don’t) and it’s also harder to meet people as you get older.

I know quite a few single women unable to find a decent stable man. Dating apps seem to be making things worse. It’s encouraging people to treat others like items in a catalogue and to scrutinise every feature. Plus theres always the possibility that there might someone better just another swipe away…

I think because so much of our lives are online it’s hard to connect with people on some levels. Women are often more picky, they are self sufficient and don’t “need a man” do no need to settle for a shit one.

For the shitty blokes who are in relationships I assume they have charm and loveliness in the early days and suck people in. Also lots of women suffer from emotional or psychological issues relating to previous trauma. I think men who are abusive/ predatory pick up on this in it becomes cyclical.

Violent porn is so normalised and most children have seen it by high school. If your understanding of what sex was going to be was shaped by that - and it is, surveys show that teenage boys expect girls to cry during sex and are so used to masturbating to it that the sight of a distressed woman turns them on; horrific sexual injuries to teenage girls are on the rise, choking and anal are considered 'vanilla' and expected and I KNOW someone will c&p that phrase from this comment and say how anal is totally vanilla now and they love it without taking into account that I'm talking about teenagers' expectations of what sex will be like. For all the toxicity of the 90s, I did grow up reading Cosmo and expecting that anyone I was going to have sex with would want me to have a good time - and I never learned that pain and discomfort and humiliation was going to be a part of that. If I was a teenage girl growing up now, I'd be terrified and revolted by what appears to be totally standard now and I wouldn't want it.

Yes. Thankfully my mum although she has many other faults is not of that view and has never pressured me to find a man. But my partners mum seems to be allergic to anyone being single and it’s all about when will they find someone, hopefully they will find someone, why haven’t they found someone etc. Then again she gave up her life and career to be someone’s housewife that she didn’t even really get on with. If I’d done that then maybe I’d also want to convince myself that marriage and kids was the be all and end all.

I'm thinking further on from my comment that it's not a strange phenomenon that a lot of men change when children come along. What started out as a pretty much equal partnership quickly slides into the woman ends up either part time working or paying all her salary to childcare without equal access to other money, housework and caring responsibilities are defaulted to her and no leisure time. Post after post after post for all the 15 years I've frequented this site. For lots of women having a man doesn't improve their lives.

It really doesn’t. There are literally so many women who are with someone who disrespects and belittles them and doesn’t pull their weight around the house. Going back decades, that used to be normal and women just had to put up with it. But it really doesn’t improve their lives having a man unless it’s an good man. Also there are so many men who I would put in the category of completely repulsive (both in physical appearance and personality). Such as the huge numbers who will leer at young women or yell out sexualised comments from their cars, including to teens in school uniform. The large numbers of sex offenders and those who feel your arse up as you’re waiting to get served in a pub. The ones addicted to porn and wanking. While there are some repulsive women too, it’s nowhere near on a par with men so statistically some women will either have to pair up with a repulsive man or stay single.

They call women feminazis and support coerced government dating.

And you are pondering why women aren't queuing up to go out with them? I agree, it's a real head scratcher...

For lots of women having a man doesn't improve their lives.

Almost every awful thing that's happened to me in my life has been at the hands of a man, so I wholeheartedly agree with this.

Government dating (in the singapore context) isn't coerced. It's just events organised by the government and 100% voluntary. I think in the French context it would be similar (macron was talking about it)..

Quite.

There is life beyond marriage, 2.4 kids, and a three bed semi in the suburbs. I mean that's a fine life if you really want it, but there are also many other options!

That's a bit of a weird assumption, I know plenty of 21 year old men who have dated older than them.

Anyone who whinges about 'Feminazi' only have themselves to blame if women are not interested in dating them...

My late husband had a friendship group composed of lots of men he knew all the way from schooldays. Of all those men only he and 1 other were married with children. One other had a partner but no kids, they had been together for over 35 years when I last spoke to him. ( and had a particular political leaning that was all encompassing)
I realized that all of them, bar the married man with kids, had ASD. I know that is not representative, but I've met so many men of a certain age who are better off not being married. They would drive the woman mad.
And speaking honestly, my late husband did that to me, as he also had ASD.
My late father was born to be married. Other men really aren't.

I think the main reason is that men in their 30s and older generally find it more difficult to meet people and even just make friends unless it's a conscious and persistent effort (e.g. going to meetups or using apps/dating sites).

Most men I know in their 30s and 40s who are single typically go to work, around mainly just other men, and go home again. They see their old friends and their male mates but don't really meet anyone new at scale.

Women have typically settled down before then, or are in the midst of raising kids and don't want another relationship yet, and often more picky because of bad experiences.

30s is particularly difficult for men because they often aren't ready to settle down properly yet, women their age are usually not getting divorced yet, there aren't that many single women their own age because biological clock, and ones a few years below are still generally finding men through other means.

And it drives so many of the other issues raised in this thread. If success is defined by a rigid pathway of relationship-marriage-children-grandchildren and measured by progress up the "housing ladder" and the acquisition of material goods, then the inequities of child-rearing and pressure to be the household breadwinner, etc. are almost baked in.

I'm pretty clear that I'm making a generalisation across the population. As with any trend there will be individuals that don't conform.

There must be a similar number of single women, unless there is a core of men having multiple secret partners. Maybe it is just that partnering up is less important in a world where women don't need to be reliant on a man.

I agree.

People, mostly men, think that older women who are single, must be dried up, desperate and lonely and put up with any morsel thrown them by someone with a penis.

The truth is, if you are over 50, you probably don’t need a man. I mean, let’s look at this practically. At 21, many years ago, I wanted/ needed a house, car, pay my bills and children. Having a partner makes this all easier. I also wanted to be removed from the dating pool as this lessened the harassment I got.

At 50+ I’ve got all those things now. OK, my pension could be topped up, and I like the spare cash, but 90% of my needs have been met and I’m very happy to tell a man to get to fuck with my advanced life skills.

So, tomorrow, if I was newly single, it’d be nice to split bills with someone to have more cash, and to go out and have fun, but otherwise I wouldn’t need a man. Also, I can do a lot of that with my girlfriends.

I think there's a growing realisation that you don't always "need" a boy/girl friend and people are starting to be more choosy, and can have a happy social life not revolving around always having a partner. It's all about freedom these days, especially among the young. Especially among those with higher/further education who know they have choices and career/lifestyle options.

My son is 23 and doesn't have a girlfriend, and no, he's not gay, he just doesn't want the drama as he calls it! Several of his graduate friends (from Uni and work) have the same outlook and opinion. They're in no hurry to get married and have children as they want to "live" as they call it. They want the freedom to go to football every Saturday, or to go for "lad's" holidays, or pub quiz nights, etc., together with no obligation, no drama, etc. He has different "groups" of friends, some from work, some from Uni, some from his home town, and just loves to "flit" in between different groups, no obligation. No tantrums or sulks if he doesn't fancy football one weekend, or wants to go to a pub quiz with his work group instead of his Uni friend group, etc. Of course, some of his friends have partners, long and short term, but they also have relatively long gaps between partners - they don't just go out on the pull to find a new partner the day after a break up - they just chill out, enjoy the single life, and then if someone comes along, then fair enough.

Both me and OH have said that we'd not be bothered about getting a new "partner" when one of us dies. I certainly wouldn't start going on dating apps, and he says the same. We'd be fine being single. Maybe if the "right" person came along, I'd consider getting involved, but I wouldn't be going looking for someone.

I think the days are long gone when you "needed" a partner due to financial, social or practical reasons. It's now socially fine to go places on your own, we no longer have separate traditional "male/female" roles. Both sexes have similar job/career/earning opportunities.

But I don't think success is defined that way anymore. People have options and opportunities these days to live a completely different, but equally "happy" life, outside the straight jacket of tradition.

It isn't for me, and may not be for you.

But how many threads posted daily to MN have this as the root cause of the problem?

I'm more often surprised by how many of them ARE in relationships. How have so many, offering so little, managed to catch a female?