To think that if a man has had bottom surgery they should be put in a woman’s prison?

[Bex5490]

Genuinely interested in this and not trying to goad just want to understand.

When people talk of the threat of a man in women’s spaces, I assume the danger is because of their penis.

So if that’s gone then should they be categorised as a woman?

I’m kind of of the opinion that if you’re willing to put that much effort in (as in penis removal) regardless of your chromosomes, I’m happy for you to be called a woman…is this wrong?

No, because they are still a man. A man without a penis, but still a man.
Women prisoners, some of society's most vulnerable should not be locked up with men.
If a man chooses to remove his penis and then commits jailable crimes, that's on him. He should be in a male prison. Why should women have to accommodate male kinks every single time?

For info, they don't put trans men in male prisons because as a woman it would be dangerous for them.
I don't know why the system seems to be blind to the equivalent danger the other way round, to women sharing with men in women's prisons .

It's the same old danger. The danger that men can present to women.

By this logic, removing violent child abusers' penises should mean they're fine to be around children.

Where do women who are high risk and vulnerable in prison go OP? Or is it all about the men, as per usual?

A man with no penis is still a man.

He can still punch harder than any woman.

He can still overpower a woman and sexually assault her.

And didn’t they try this with chemical castration?

A trans person should either be sent to a prison that corresponds to their sex, or to a prison/ wing of prison that only caters for trans people. A man without a penis is still a man.

YABU. Having 'bottom surgery' still doesn't make them a woman.

No because so many trans “women” have committed sexual offences, many only become “trans” when they realise they’re going to prison and the is an extraordinarily high number of women in prison who have experienced domestic abuse and need to be protected more not less.

I agree with you but people have to be able to ask questions without being persecuted. It’s how they learn. On the face of it one may see OPs POV but after just a couple of responses one would hope that OP and others have all be easily educated because OP asked a simple question.

No. They are men. Irrespective of surgery they are still men and do not belong in a women's prison. It's not possible to change biological sex. So men should not ever be in women's prisons or vice versa. People seem to be a bit confused about this so hopefully this clears that up for them.

Bottom surgery does not remove the post pubertal strength and the aggression. One of the most dangerous and aggressive men imprisoned for attempted murder is purported to have had the surgery.

Transgender is an emotive subject that I normally avoid debate on, not least as I may offend by use of incorrect or inappropriate terminology - this is not my intention or part of my questions which I have phrased as neutrally as I can.
However, I am interested to ask where women who decide they are men would go for their prison sentence? Within those women who have identified as male will be some who have undertaken surgical reassignment and hormone treatment. Do females in female prisons feel safe with this? I have seen debate on results of hormone treatment making people physically stronger (male hormones) or weaker (female hormones) than they were prior which would impact on vulnerability of male-female prisoner in male prisons and female inmates where there are female-male prisoners.

Prisons are fit to burst as it is. There are not going to be any trans-only prisons.

Sex at birth is absolutely fine. How long they’ve been pretending to be otherwise is irrelevant.

Dead wrong - born a man die a man, no matter how many modifications you make to your body and how many hormone pills you take - you are still a man. And if you do something that lands you in prison, you should go to a mans prison. Just because they re-gender themselves does not mean they don't think like a man.

A woman, for example, does cutting her tits off makes her a man, if she does not get a penis? And could you put her in a mans jail without a penis?

The world is slowly going insane and it's dragging us all along for the ride - whether we like it or not, and it's not good

So who gets to judge which transwomen have made "enough" effort?

What if you have a high-effort, really, really, means it transwoman who has health complications that make genital surgery impossible?

Why should a transwoman have to have false breasts added when plenty of women are a B cup or smaller?

Man-in-a-wig late transitioner, someone who has had full reassignment surgery, someone who would really like to have surgery but is on a long wait or can't have it for other reasons, and someone who doesn't want surgery but feels that they absolutely are a women are all the same amount of female.

Yes, it's a good idea to put them in a women's prison because it will make the prison a more unpleasant place. The worse the experience of prison is for a criminal, the less likely they are to be willing to return to it in future. I don't buy the "men are stronger" argument because there are plenty of strong, violent women in prison already.

Some of us are already educated on the issue but maintain a stance that is contrary to the majority responses, for personal reasons.

They should have never have been there in the first place.

Yes, the gender brigade over played their hand and created a merry old spectacle that brought into the light how institutions had shuttled in policy changes without oversight or sense.

Perhaps this travesty could have gone on longer were it not for the Baby Kardashians, Isla Brysons and the Karen Whites but, there you go.

Yes they should be kept safe. But not at the expense of women's safety.

Ultimately they made a choice to mutilate themselves and pretend to themselves that they are a woman. They are not.

Actual women have no choice, they are born women and have no choice but to face threats from men.
If trans women had an iota of "womaness" in them they would appreciate that. But they don't. Because it's all about them and their delusion.

Nothing a man wears changes his sex.
Nothing a man does surgically to his body changes his sex.

Once he has been through puberty he has the physical advantages of being male.

I'll happily call them TRANSwomen if they like, but I refuse to call them a woman. Because they are not. Same as women presenting as men - I'll call them a Transman instead of a woman, but I will not call them a man.

Please can you define "penis", OP?

If I (as a female) have part of my arm removed and attached to my groin and call it a penis, does that mean I should then be housed in the male prison?

If I comb and wax my pubic hair into a sausage and call it a penis, does that count and get me into a male prison?

If I put a sock filled with rocks into my knickers, does that count towards male prison entry?

You're creating some kind of social/moral code here based entirely around the feelings in a man's head and his motivations (only ever truly knowable to him) rather than reality and fact.

This is no basis for any kind of policy and certainly not one that considers the needs of women.

I will not ever call a man a woman.

This needs to be repeated so often

Women are not -
Support humans
Validation support
Non character players
Sacrificial lambs

And women's services/spaces/resources are not a useful resource to be utilised for the sake of men whoever they identify/if they have chosen to undergo extreme cosmetic surgery.

If there are men who cannot be placed in the men's main prison estate for whatever reason, then it is up the male prison estate to arrange this.

That’s fine. You’re allowed your view. My main point really though is I hate it when a person makes someone feel stupid for asking a question when all that person is doing is trying to learn. It’s the worst type of people imo.