To think that if a man has had bottom surgery they should be put in a woman’s prison?

[Bex5490]

Genuinely interested in this and not trying to goad just want to understand.

When people talk of the threat of a man in women’s spaces, I assume the danger is because of their penis.

So if that’s gone then should they be categorised as a woman?

I’m kind of of the opinion that if you’re willing to put that much effort in (as in penis removal) regardless of your chromosomes, I’m happy for you to be called a woman…is this wrong?

@Lostcat is something is based entirely on subjective feelings rather than measurable, quantifiable scientific fact, then it is by definition an ideology. There is no test for "trans" other than a person believing themselves to be so. There is no test or scientific measure by which their "transness" can be proven or observed objectively. It is a belief system. No more, no less.

And your assertion is entirely inaccurate. I have friends from many and varied political backgrounds, friends of many different faith and creeds, friends who hold opposing views to me on many things. And yet still, not one of the lesbians I know supports trans ideology. Many of them have spoken of how they'd likely have fallen prey to it themselves in the years where they struggled with their sexuality. All of them remain happily lesbian, and happily female.

Still no response Lostcat?

We have a leading expert on transphobia who can't tell us what is the difference between a man and a transwoman. This suggests that she doesn't actually know what makes someone trans. Which would also mean they couldn't possibly know what transphobia is.

It you could just tell us all: what's she difference between a man and a transwoman?

I can't think of any other definition which is accurate

Right. So is it your conclusion that the distinction between a man and a trans woman really is that superficial?

I think you should expand on your statements. You've been asked to provide answers on the differences between men and transwomen and you have purposely evaded it thus far.

I think my comment is self explanatory. Transgender people have a psychological condition called dysphoria. They are biologically the same as regular men in every other way.

is something is based entirely on subjective feelings rather than measurable, quantifiable scientific fact

What do you mean by “measurable” and “quantifiable”

Oh we do, quite often. If you believe aliens are taking to you through your radio, we'd call that a psychological abnormality. If you believed you were overweight while being extremely thin, that would be another psychological abnormality.
A human believing themselves to be a cat, another one.

When we believe things that are untrue, it's quite often a psychological abnormality causing it, wouldn't you agree?

I suggest you read the dictionary.

Ah come on now! She means what everyone means by the same words. They're in the dictionary.

Transgender people have a psychological condition called dysphoria

And what exactly is this in your mind? And do you consider it to be superficial/ unimportant? Is it something that people “chose”? Do they “acquire” it or were they “born with it”? And what causes it? Can it be changed?

(also your use of language is wrong as not all trans people have dysphoria).

What's your conclusion? You're the expert here. You keep talking about the reality of being trans.

What is that reality? What's the difference between a man and a transwoman?

Please.

@Lostcat those words mean exactly what they've always meant. It wasn't an obscure use of the English language...

A belief is different to a scientifically proven condtion. I'm sure transwomen believe they are women but the reason they believe that is because they have a psychological abnormality.

You can't argue with science.

Is depression “measurable” and “quantifiable”?

No, not all beliefs indicate a psychological abnormality.

For example.

Christians believe in God, the holy trinity of father, son and holy spirit. They believe that God the father created the earth, and sent Jesus the son to earth in human form, born of a virgin, to save humanity from its sins. They believe that Jesus was crucified, died and was buried, and on the third day, he rose again and ascended to heaven. Among other things.

This is a belief, not a fact. They acknowledge that none of these things can be proven to be true. In fact it is a core part of their belief system. The fact that they believe it without any proof that it is true. They call it the "mystery of faith".

But it cannot be proven to be untrue either.

Trans people who believe they are, or should be, the opposite sex (and it is worth noting that not all trans people do believe this) believe something that is obviously untrue.

Now I’m lost…

It would appear that Lostcat is insisting that the Emperor has new clothes but she strangely can't tell us what colour they are.

Why is that, do we think?

Yes. If you believe there is something else, please tell us what you think it is.

Well at least you can admit that.

If we're all so transphobic, could you please educate us on the difference between a man and a transwoman? So we get less transphobic?

Or at least please tell us why you won't answer this question?

Evidently.

So in your mind is being trans a psychological condition or a belief? Because earlier someone said it was a “psychological condition”. I asked what they meant by that and they said “a belief”, which was very odd.

I've not read all the many hundreds of posts on this subject but as a big fan of the female musical, satirical cabaret act "Fascinating Aïda" I'm thinking about one of it's members 72 years old Adèle Anderson who transitioned to a woman about 50 years ago. She's incredibly glamorous as well as highly talented and I just can't imagine asking HER to use men's facilities.

It's important to trans people, sure.

But it's not relevant to the definition of what a woman is and what a man is.

Does what women are somehow change because there happen to be male people with gender dysphoria in the world?

Why don't you tell us what it is in your mind?

What's the difference between a man and a transwoman Lostcat?

What is it? We don't know. And you say you know. Very poor form not to educate us.

Right so you think being trans is entirely superficial.

Lots of people can't imagine asking male people to inconvenience themselves in any way.