Modern grandparenting double standards

[TheCalmQuail]

I'll preface this with yes I know that my DC are my responsibility and I shouldn't expect childcare, but it would be nice if it felt like GPs actually wanted to spend time/get to know DC/help occasionally.

Its come up in a few conversations with other parents recently about how little time their DPs spend with their DC, especially in comparison to when they were younger and at their GPs daily. Myself included, I avoided nursery completely when my DM went back to work because free daily childcare from a relative, and some of my happiest regular memories are spending regular one on one time with my Nana.

I realise GPs are entitled to their own lives, but the lack of help does seem like double standards, when a large majority have seemingly had so much help themselves.

I love my DM dearly but I'm surprised at how little effort she puts in, she relocated to live down the road from us and I barely see her unless she needs me. It often feels like she's an extra toddler as I have to suggest stuff to tempt her to do anything together; I manage the logistics, drive her there etc. She will be there for emergency childcare requests when possible. But I'd love her to be a bit more proactive, if only just to give her and DC more time together, as they adore her. And on the flip side I regularly help her out with her home, tech issues, pet sitting, I've built her a website and saved her thousands on setting up her part time business. I also am always the one to invite her over for meals, it's never reciprocated. I'd love her to nip over and take DC to the park, or for a hot choc once in while, just because she wanted to see him

Similar for PIL, we make a +200 mile round trip every 6-8 weeks to see them. MIL will often very bluntly tell us how knackered we look, but they've not once offered to take DC for an hour or two whilst we're there, or suggested me and DH go for a coffee/have a bit of time as a couple. I don't think they've changed a single nappy in over 3 years. Yet they expect us to schlep a toddler across 4 counties on the regular out of obligation.

I absolutely know this is #notallgrandparents as my DB ILs also relocated nearer to him. They have their GC one day a week and regularly on weekends, they do the majority of school holiday childcare and are still often asking for extra sleepovers and time together with their DGC. Which is all a lot more than I'd ever expect.

I know this will be a marmite subject, but really AIBU? Surely the idea is to pass on the help and generosity you received, to help the next generation?

Yup, it's a thing. We've lost all sense of social responsibility recent generations and it shows. Everyone wanted to work to contribute, help each other out. Now it's much more selfish and about you and what you can get away with.

I’m not sure this is entirely true. I live in a rural village and there have always been lonely isolated elderly people living alone here generation after generation who are supported by the community to a certain extent. Also many families who have been estranged, going back fifty years or more.

I think what has changed is that people are becoming more real about family relationships. And friendships for that matter. And I say this as someone with a very close family and some truly great friends.

When women didn’t work and had less economic power, we were sold this idealistic view of motherhood and domesticity. A pastel pink vision of maternal love.

And when that changed, we became women wrestling with motherhood and the workplace and some women thrive and some sink under the pressure.

Then we were told the lie that our friends will be our new families but few people have time, or even want that level of commitment when they are working and parenting at the same time.

The truth is that parenting and working is hard work and we are not all the same and that’s ok.

Some mothers and fathers are naturally maternal and paternal and they probably are the ones that will throw themselves in to grand-parenting and make great gps!

Some of us are quiet, creative types who need more quiet time and space and I think that’s ok too tbh. We threw ourselves in to parenting our own dc for a quarter of a century and loved it, mostly 😄, but it perhaps didn’t come as naturally as to some others.

I look forward to teaching my gc creative skills, but I also look forward to being able to prioritise, for the very first time in my sixties, some days when my own time is just for me.

Grandparents are not one homogenous group of people with similar characteristics!

My thoughts exactly. As when myself and DH decided to have kids we knew were where building a family.

I'm the only one with kids at the moment. But already I can see when my bro has kids I'm sure it'll be different and he will get so much help and visits in the way I don't

@saraclara as I clearly said in my OP, this isn't the case for ALL GPs, because nothing is ever that simple. There are nuances, there are clearly lots of proactive GPs, just from reading this thread.

I would definitely take your pal Jim's statistics with a pinch of salt, as I do with most political quotes. That statistic originates from the 'Abbey National Complicated Lives Report', undertaken in 2000, seemingly as a bit of PR/marketing spin to get some press. I can't find any information on the sample size but I'm guessing it was a one off, and I doubt many Grandparents of my generations age were were around in 2000 to give their input. As this thread has anecdotally found from multiple posters, a lot of our parents don't actually seem to remember, or value how much help they got from their parents. So I bet there's also a lot of bias.

I simply find the trend towards hands off grandparenting really sad. Also this thread seems to have focused on GPs as an alternative to childcare, and that wasn't my original gripe. I'd just like them to be a bit more understanding and proactive.

YANBU. I’m always so envious when I see/hear of a grandparent who is involved and loves their grandchildren. It’s the one thing I can not give my DC. Unfortunately both my DP and PIL have zero interest in them. I don’t even want childcare - I just want them to love them and have some interest in them. When we see them they literally don’t speak to them - lucky to get a quick perfunctory ‘how’s school’, without listening to the answer, they just want to talk about themselves.

Great post!

As a sinker, I’m still doggy-paddling my way through after two decades. I’m in my 40’s and looking forward to a time where my life belongs to me entirely. I’m reading this and hoping my 70 year old self isn’t guilt-tripped back into the water 💦

Also, the older I get, the less I can tolerate the activity and noise-levels of even the most delightful young children.

YANBU. I used to go to my grandparents' house one night a week and for a year or two they picked me up from school every day. My other grandad lived with us but sadly died before I started school- but even though I was very young we spent so much time together that I really do remember him.

My parents and PIL were very helpful to us when DDs were young and enjoyed having them. PIL used to look after them one day a week. My parents picked DD2 up from school a few days a week at one point - she was ok to walk back by herself by then but I think my dad enjoyed it.

So we have been lucky with GPs and parents. I can't imagine then turning around and not being available for DDs when they are older and have little ones if they need me. I wouldn't want to look after small children every day, but one day a week plus babysitting would be no problem, health permitting.

It's not a threat, it's just a natural consequence. If parents are in a position to help their grown up children with childcare or even just visit enough to form a bond with their grandchildren, it is more likely that the relationships will be good and mutually beneficial.

If parents are retired, in good health and don't live too far away but offer no support to their grown up children, it is unlikely that these children will feel obligated to provide support to their ageing parents.

I feel like I'm hitting my head against the wall. You refer to modern grandparenting as if it's a detachment thing. But modern grandparenting, if anything, seems to be about more commitment and more care. So more responsibility rather than more fun.

I understand that care and general involvement are different things, and that's a fair point. But how many threads do we get on here where DILs complain about grandparents wanting to have their grandchildren alone? Sadly there's a lot of 'they've had their turn' going on as well, which I can't imagine being said a generation or two ago. Same with the 'my little family' MN thing.

I don't know. I just feel that we can't win sometimes. Luckily my DD is very appreciative of my help and very chill about letting Grandma do Grandma-ing without a list of rules!

We had no grandparents anywhere near when I was a child in the 50s and 60s so my DM never had any of that sort of help. I don’t know why it so often seems to be assumed that everybody ‘back then’ had family around the corner.

I knew my DM felt that she’d done her bit with 4 dcs of her own, the 2 youngest very close together - with terry nappies, no automatic washing machine, no car, and very little spare cash. So I never asked her for any childcare help at all.

OTOH I have always been available and glad to help dd with her 3 - if and when I can.

Honestly you're nonsensical at this point. What list of rules?

#1 Get to know your DC
#2 Proactively spend time with them because you actually want to and can be bothered

I also don't know what your basis of modern grandparenting being about more commitment is based on. And you talk about me making generalisations!

I don't doubt for a minute that you are a fantastic GP and your DC are fortunate to have your help. But this is a public forum, we're all adults. I can agree to disagree.

I genuinely thought I'd get shot down from the off, when I started this thread and I'm actually quite shocked at just how many parents are experiencing the same feelings I have. We're not imagining it.

Another one who's the opposite of your experience. I spent Sunday's with both sets of GPs with one of my parents in tow and the cousins played together, and minded by them very rarely (less than a handful of times) but my mam was a sahm so didn't really ask. We saw them plenty though and had a good relationship.

I'm very lucky that my late DM was amazing for babysitting my 22 month old once every 4-6 weeks until she passed away a couple of months ago. My DF minds my DSis 2 children one day a week after school as my DM used to do it and will probably take my DD when she's older if he's fit for it. My In Laws take my DD one afternoon a week by choice (they collect her early from nursery so we don't need the childcare) and would take DD for a couple of hours or overnight if we need it (though MIL works part time so we would ask maybe 2/3 times a year). However I have friends who'd parents wouldn't help at all and I find it sad as my own DP and PIL love spending time with their GC and hope I'll be the same if I ever become a GP.

We only saw my grandfather in the summer holidays when we went to visit.
All other grandparents had died before I was born

My mother did all the house washing and cleaning for my grandfather during her ‘so called’ holiday.

So we never expected my parents to look after our kids. That’s how we were brought up as my parents had already done their share of childcare in their day.
We chose to have kids and as such chose to look after them.

My parents had no help from their parents (DM was a SAHM, and slightly odd family dynamics. DM's mum died when I was 2 as well).

DH and I received babysitting about once a month for a night out, and school holiday childcare for one day a week. MIL used to do a school pick up once a week.

I look after DGD (2) one day a week, and DH and I often look after her at the weekend too. She's sleeps over about once every month or two. DS and his girlfriend are relatively young by today's standards (as are we!) so we are doing what we can to help.

We seem to be the opposite of what you are saying.

Honestly you're nonsensical at this point. What list of rules?

I'm not talking about this thread, but the ones that appear regularly where parents dictate exactly what's grandparents are allowed and not allowed to do (I'm talking unreasonable ones, not 'always use a car seat')

I also don't know what your basis of modern grandparenting being about more commitment is based on. And you talk about me making generalisations!

It's based on statistics and research that confirms that vastly more grandparents now commit to regular childcare, then used to. And as other listed have said, the demographic at the school and nursery gates is the every day experience.

Of course there are some disengagaged grandparents. My mother was one of them. Totally disinterested. Which is why I've sympathised with the posters who are dealing with similar (fortunately my lovely MIL was a spectacular grandma).

But yep. Everyone of my friends is engaged in regular childcare. But none of us had parents who did childcare for our children. Nursery costs are phenomenal, so I can see how the change happened. But it's just a bit galling to read an OP that slates 'modern day grandparenting'.

What is actually shocking is them not wanting to know their GC. Shocking and really fucking sad.

This is interesting. I wonder if there was a bit more of a look after each other, let’s all pitch in attitude, which maybe kept people functioning until much later.

Dh and I were both pretty much raised by our grandparents. My mum used almost no paid childcare from when she went back to work when I was 3 months, except for some holiday clubs when I was in school. My grandparents had me 8-6 5 days a week plus some weekends until I started school and then they did the school runs. I ate dinner with them, sometimes I had a bath at theirs, went home ready for bed. They would take me on days out, away on beach holidays, etc. Dh’s grandparents were similar.

I am NC with my mum now, but even when we were close. She might spend time with them at ours while I ran to the shop. I can count on one hand the times she stayed with them while we went out for a meal. Same with MIL. Neither have ever had them to theirs for an afternoon or an overnight or taken them on holiday or had them for the day while we worked. Ever. In 12 years. They would really struggle. They are probably younger and fitter than our grandparents were at the same age, but they seem less able to cope with life. Wouldn’t know what to cook dc for a meal if they needed to feed them dinner. Wouldn’t want to go to the shop with them. Would never manage to take them for a day out somewhere. My grandparents used to take me to do so many fun things.

I’m not sure what the difference is other than maybe just having a different attitude to family and just getting on with things. Neither of them ever host family for Christmas or any other occasion. They don’t really do much. There is almost like a shutting down of life from their mid 60s because it’s all a lot of work (though they are perfectly well and healthy). They just seem much more overwhelmed by living than our grandparents were, who were running big households and farming and hosting 30 people for Christmas/Easter, going on holidays, doing all the stuff well into their 70s.

If your Mum was happy to leave you, her baby, in care of family while going to work, what makes you think she would sacrifice her freedom to look after your babies? I would assume even less interest is a natural progression.

I think also in the past GPs got to spend time with their GC as part of family time. It is entirely possible to have a great bond with GCs without providing regular committed childcare we visited our GPs with our parents, our GPs came to our house to see us as a family not just specifically for childcare.

My parents are actively involved in all our lives, and look after my children if needed, provided we give notice where possible and it is not too difficult for them logistically. My Mum worked part time when I was growing up so was usually around when I got home from school and in the holidays and my Dad worked full-time. If they were unavailable then we would go to our Grandparents who lived locally after school, in the holidays or if one of us was off school sick.

I've no idea whether my parents and their university / professional friends fall into the "wealthy" bracket in your definition - probably quite a lot do. None are "rich" in the millions large-business-owning bracket, most of their university onwards mates (not childhood, definitely) are solicitors / doctors / barristers / judges / accountants / engineers / etc so often sent their children to private schools benefited from massive house price rises, good pensions, etc. My own Dad isn't retired yet, but that's choice, not necessity. Cruises are in the crowd above a wince-idea not an aspiration! Similarly my own school friends, say, as unlike my parents I grew up in a professional household, private schools, holidays, never a cruise in sight.

My parents' friends, and my friends' parents, tend to be fairly involved grandchildren, with exceptions (including elderly, frail, dead, not in the UK). I can't think of many GPs who do a lot of childcare while their children work, but a lot who are involved, interested, etc. I don't think regular school pickups and after-school care are all that common (as far as I know). It happens at my son's primary school, I just asked him, and he says that about 3-4 children in his class of 22 are regularly dropped / collected by grandparents. GP attendance at school plays, concerts, nativities etc is much higher.

It might be the other way around - my Mum did more with my sons than she does now with my nephew - she was in her 50s and 60s when my sons were born, and 75 when my sister's son was born, and that makes a great deal of difference in what she's able to do.

Eh? I left my children in care of my mum while I went to work, because I HAD to work. I now look after my grandchildren every week.

My friend and her brother used to go to tea at nans house every Monday. Her nan is in her 80s now and my friend still goes round there on a Monday and takes her 10 year old son. My friend brings fish and chips or they have fish fingers, chips and beans and they have a chat and my friend helps her out with any little bits that need doing. It's so sweet. If my teenagers have children and would be happy for me to be involved then I would love to help out and would prioritise that over other things whilst still having a life to myself. So I would happily do one day a week childcare or have them in the holidays.

Everyone is different but I wouldn't want to watch my children struggle when I could help.

I'm not too bothered about not having childcare, as nice as it would be as me and DH never get an evening alone. It does make me sad that my children miss out on the relationships I had though. I spent so much time with my grandparents and aunts growing up and have so many nice memories. We had really close relationships and I also provided care for my grandparents. Not only will my children will miss out but I think my parents amd brothers may also miss out because they won't have that relationship with my children when they get to the age where they need care.