Modern grandparenting double standards

[TheCalmQuail]

I'll preface this with yes I know that my DC are my responsibility and I shouldn't expect childcare, but it would be nice if it felt like GPs actually wanted to spend time/get to know DC/help occasionally.

Its come up in a few conversations with other parents recently about how little time their DPs spend with their DC, especially in comparison to when they were younger and at their GPs daily. Myself included, I avoided nursery completely when my DM went back to work because free daily childcare from a relative, and some of my happiest regular memories are spending regular one on one time with my Nana.

I realise GPs are entitled to their own lives, but the lack of help does seem like double standards, when a large majority have seemingly had so much help themselves.

I love my DM dearly but I'm surprised at how little effort she puts in, she relocated to live down the road from us and I barely see her unless she needs me. It often feels like she's an extra toddler as I have to suggest stuff to tempt her to do anything together; I manage the logistics, drive her there etc. She will be there for emergency childcare requests when possible. But I'd love her to be a bit more proactive, if only just to give her and DC more time together, as they adore her. And on the flip side I regularly help her out with her home, tech issues, pet sitting, I've built her a website and saved her thousands on setting up her part time business. I also am always the one to invite her over for meals, it's never reciprocated. I'd love her to nip over and take DC to the park, or for a hot choc once in while, just because she wanted to see him

Similar for PIL, we make a +200 mile round trip every 6-8 weeks to see them. MIL will often very bluntly tell us how knackered we look, but they've not once offered to take DC for an hour or two whilst we're there, or suggested me and DH go for a coffee/have a bit of time as a couple. I don't think they've changed a single nappy in over 3 years. Yet they expect us to schlep a toddler across 4 counties on the regular out of obligation.

I absolutely know this is #notallgrandparents as my DB ILs also relocated nearer to him. They have their GC one day a week and regularly on weekends, they do the majority of school holiday childcare and are still often asking for extra sleepovers and time together with their DGC. Which is all a lot more than I'd ever expect.

I know this will be a marmite subject, but really AIBU? Surely the idea is to pass on the help and generosity you received, to help the next generation?

I was brought up by my grandad-I lived with him 99% of the time

(Granny died long before I was born)

My other set of grandparents (on my mother's side) where a pair of nasty,narcissistic and evil bastards who made it clear they had their favourites and we where not-they didn't look after any of us

I know she was gay (he certainly wasnt bothered) and only got married to keep up appearances

Fast forward and I have my own children

My mother only bothered with mine if other people could see her having them-i was on my own in the winter as they couldn't play out in the street (where the neighbours could see them)

They did zero childcare,gave zero support and wouldn't have dreamed of coming to my house to see them-we had to travel to them or they didn't bother-not even a phone call

(I remember ringing to ask if they'd have the younger ones as ds had broken his arm and I had to get him to a&e-all I got back was 'nah,not today,we are clearing out the attic')

I now have my own gd and I live 130 miles away,(moved to get away from narc mother)but am planning to be a hands on granny-its only a train ride away and its easier for me to travel than 2 adults,a baby and the dog

All they have to do is ask and I'll book it off work and be there

They are more than welcome to stay with us if they want to

My grandparents were retired by the time I was born - they lived an hour away by train but we saw them probably once a month and definitely every Christmas until we moved overseas (father in the services).

When my children were little both my parents were still working and lived a 4 hour drive away. We saw them a few times a year and my Mum would take annual leave so the DC could go and stay (without me) for a week or so in school holidays. By the time they retired my children were teens so not that interested in spending a lot of time with them but we did still see them a few times a year and chatted on the phone regularly.

I'm retired (almost 60) and there's no sign I'll have grandchildren any time soon (if at all). I hope I'll be a fun grandparent if I become one!

It works both ways though, there are plenty of daughter in laws who want to have as little contact as possible and don’t give the GPs a chance to spend time with their grandchildren.

Yup, it's a thing. We've lost all sense of social responsibility recent generations and it shows. Everyone wanted to work to contribute, help each other out. Now it's much more selfish and about you and what you can get away with.

I was looked after 3 days a week by grandparents, close bond. My parents did take a huff once about how their grandkids don't get super excited to see them like we did our grandparents. I pointed out that the fact we saw our grandparents multiple times a week and did lots with them while our kids see them once per month if we go to them and they sit and look at them rather than play with them probably has something to do with it. The script of oh but we've done our parenting, enjoying retirement etc started and I said that's fine, I never even asked them to provide childcare (they said when announced pregnant 'I hope you don't expect us to look after it while you work), but this is the consequence of seeing and interacting so little with their grandkids.

It seemed to shock them that the bond was built and didn't come with the title. It's their loss.

My partner and I have both cut our working hours, so we can look after 2 DGC 2 days a week. Without this DD and her partner wouldn't be able to afford to pay their mortgage.

We both love building our own relationship with the DGC. I have taught DGS to swim, DP has involved both the DGCs with the library. We also host a whole family meal once a week for all 7 DGCs to ensure quality cousin time.

I am only 48 and my DD is only 10 so a while until I may get the chance to be a grandparent. But I am really looking forward to it. We have not had any family support as both sets of parents have passed away but if or when the time comes I cannot wait to be a Nana. And if I want to holiday I can take my DGC with me sometimes. And I can not imagine spending time with my grandchild would be a chore- they will be family that we love and cherish. We have set up provisions already for any potential grandchildren. And I hope my DD would ensure I was well looked after if I became Incapable, though we have provisions for this too, because she loves me and I am her Mum. Not judging anyway one else just saying how I feel about it after reading the thread.

It's not a threat, it's a logical extension of the principle people are saying applies.

That principle being - Grandparents have no obligation to help with grandchildren, it's all on the parents, they have earned their time to travel and do what they want. It's wrong to feel put our or any moral judgement of that free choice.

Well, yes, that principle is also going to apply to helping out your aged parents, isn't it? They are adults, responsible for their own care, their kids have no obligations.

The emotional side of that is that adult kids who felt unsupported might feel less inclined to want to help parents, but it's not really about feelings, it's about the logic of the whole thing.

What happens is often those grandparents think they will take care of themselves completely and pay for care, (and then they do stupid shit like move to Spain where they know no one) and then it gets to the time their health is failing, and they find it's a lot more complex than that and some kinds of help you can't really pay for, it requires the commitment of your loved ones to pull you through.

Fancy a couple more DGC? 😁 The cousin catch up is very thoughtful, I bet they all love it. You are going above and beyond anything I'd ever expect, but it's lovely to hear.

I completely get it. My dm dropped us in our pajamas to gp house every morning before school. They looked after us, school runs, homework, dinners etc. We went home at 7pm. DGM worked around our school hours. She went out on a Monday night, we were babysat by a cousin. She went out Fri night, we just stayed with GP after school and she got us 12.30 ish on a Saturday. Sunday we went to 'visist" grandparents from 3pm to 6pm. I never spent 1 whole day off at home. I will argue down my gp raised me, definitely the 1st 14yrs of my life. And me and dm do the same job, so I know she absolutely could have made changes.
She took early retirement to 'spend time with grandkids' she is asked for 1 school pick up at 3pm. I finish work at 5. Bang on 5pm she is on the phone looking me.

If my dc ever stayed with her(very rare) they have to have had dinner before they go and I genuinely wouldn't have the guts to be any later than 10am getting them.
But she will share all sorts on FB about being an amazing grandmother And well tell all about being a single parent and doing it all herself. She absolutely didnt raise us alone. I said once before about having 3 parents since they raised me and ww3 broke out. She is utterly blind to it.

I get you OP. I spent all my childhood with my nan and grandad so my mum could work and have a social life. Heck, I live with my nan now, with my own child.

My mum comes down for 15 minutes and doesn't even take her coat off, and visits maybe once every week or two. She once had DS overnight when he was 5 weeks old, and I came home early from my event so she could go home to her own bed.

Now she's on about moving 50 miles away and doesn't drive for a man she's known 5 minutes and it just feels like a kick in the teeth that she outsourced all her parenting and now she's a grandparent I'm not expecting her to have DS at all, but perhaps show more of an interest, be more involved now time allows, spend time with her own adult children that she missed out so much on due to working as a single parent, etc.

It feels like I don't even know her. We're basically acquaintances that she feels she can say more mature things to now were both adults.

And my sons grandad on his dad's side still wants to mess around like a teenage lad he was never ready to step into the roll of dad never mind grandad, and it's just so depressing that my son only has such a small circle of family that want to be involved in his life.

But one day if I'm ever lucky enough to be a grandparent I will definitely pay the love I got from my grandparents forward, and just be the mum to my child that I needed when I was growing up.

We went to our grandparents every school holiday, most weekends and after school most days. For us, it created a very unhealthy dynamic. We never felt like we had a proper relationship with our parents but when this came to cause issues for us as adults, our grandparents were not at all sympathetic and defended our parents. We felt completely rejected by all the adults who “raised” us.

I always think that Mumsnet is about equally divided between those who see GPs as not doing enough, and those who think they want to do too much.

All goes to prove that they simply cannot win!!

we make a +200 mile round trip every 6-8 weeks to see them

Why? Find new friends or activities closer to home. People who are like minded. People your dc can grow up knowing.

Visit them less frequently, explain why. Extend an invitation for them to come to you in between visits.

I'm sorry you've been unlucky with GP. It's not my experience and I see a lot of very committed GPS doing very regular childcare for their children.

None of the wealthy or comfortable retired people I know would go on a cruise short of at gunpoint, TBF. My parents would rather (in their 70s) camp in Dartmoor in December. My parents aren't "rich" but they are certainly well-off, and have a very close and good relationship with all their grandsons.

The thread is an interesting read. DH and I are early/mid 60s and still working full-time. Grown-up DS is married, dd is partnered. All working full time.

We had occasional grandparent support at the grandparents' convenience and in emergencies. When the DC were 5 plus my mother would have them, singly, in the school holidays, which was a help. Their grandmother's were about 58/9 when the GC were born. I shall be a minimum of 65.

Our parents were 200 and 100 miles away respectively. DS is presently 200 miles away and whilst dd is local I expect her and her partner to be living in Continental Europe within two years. No grandchildren yet.

We supported our DC by providing them with superb educations, by supporting their career choices and post graduate choices. Their formative years were excellent and provided them with much opportunity. They are independent, make their own decisions and are entirely capable. We do not expect to provide them with formal, regular childcare when they have children. We consider our support and graft to be done. We will help them with emergencies and in holidays and occasionally if we are needed but that is it. They had 24/5 years of 100% emotional, practical, and financial support to enable them to adult. When they have children it will be their turn to adult.

DH and I are also presently responsible for providing elder care. One cares for those who are vulnerable. Adult children, unless they have health needs, tend not to be vulnerable.

This thread is a real eye opener. At least I have told both children that I will not be responsible for childcare in advance. They may each get the equivalent of a day's paid care if required but generally because they are not entitled by nature.

Age does make a difference. My Mum was in her 50s when her first grandson was born (my DS1), and in her 60s when my DS2 was born. She was in her 70s last year when my nephew was born. She said herself recently that looking after a baby for a day/evening is a different experience when you are 75 compared to 56.

I totally agree with you OP. But it seems to be quite unfashionable these days to be close to your family & want to support each other. My Nan did the majority of childcare for my mum when I was little & I’ve always been very close to her as a result. Now my mum looks after my 1 year old two days a week whilst I work. She actually offered this, as she adores her granddaughter & loves having the one on one time with her & also, for me, she loves being able to help her daughter. She’s not retired & works the other three days! I would never expect it but I personally plan/expect to do the same for my daughter if she goes on to has children & would like me to have that role.

I also find the “they’ve already raised their kids” argument at bit weird to justify grandparents being distant. You don’t stop being a parent once your child becomes an adult.

I’m a first time grandma this one baby in August and one due in December. I am planning on reducing my hours at work to have both babies one day a week when my DD’s go back to work after their maternity leave, this is to help with childcare costs and of course I can’t wait.

However, I have been planning and saving for the reduction in my salary for a while.

Retirement age is now 67, and many grandparents still have to work to live, they may really want to look after their grandchildren but just can’t.

My mum stopped working when my elder sibling was born and never went back to work. She had a decade and a half of not working and not having any caring responsibilities (more than that really, as we "children" didn't need any kind of "care" for many years before we moved out as we were old enough to look after ourselves). She then was happy to do a day or two a week childcare for grandchildren (with caveats - at her house only, we did all the ferrying around etc - which is fair enough).

If my children have children at the same age I did, I will still be working full time, having worked full time apart from 1 year mat leave per child, since I was an adult. I will have another 8 years to go before I can retire. And after having worked in some capacity or other since 15, and full time all my adult life, by 68, I will need a break. I'm already pretty exhausted now in my 50s (although to be fair I have autoimmune disease which doesn't help).

In the entirely of her life, my mum worked FT for 10 years, brought up her own children for 18 years, the rest of the time was her own. She had capacity to offer a day or two a week to help out for a few years.

In my life I will have worked full time for 50+ years and brought up my own children for 18 years - the capacity I will have left is going to be much less, and much later in life. I'm also now providing care for my elderly parents on top of everything else, which is frankly breaking me.

That said, I can't imagine that I wouldn't want to help and support my children, and I can't imagine not wanting to spend time with my grandchildren. But realistically, by the time they come along, I'm not sure what capacity I will have left to help them. I suspect regular childcare will be out of the question either due to work/financial commitments or due to sheer exhaustion.

Society has changed. In my mum's time her "job" as it were was to be a caregiver. Society was set up so that she could afford not to work for the majority of her adult life, and therefore was reasonably available and able to care for children, parents and grandchildren - the sum total of which was not an unreasonable burden. When you add the necessity for 50+ years of full time working to the mix, it's simply too much to expect women (and it always seems to be women) to also add caring for children, elderly adults and grandchildren into the mix.

It’s a real shame I agree with you but they make their own choices and priorities and that is their right. You cannot change their behaviour, you can only change your own response. Right now they have no incentive to change as everything works in their favour as you run around exhausting yourself to accommodate them. Honestly, in your position I would consider being less accommodating.

When your mum next needs a website or similar I might be tempted to say sorry you cannot help. Your excuse is you have no break from childcare and are simply too knackered/run off your feet to be able to take on extra responsibilities at the moment at risk of burnout. Likewise with the 200 mile round trip - drop to every 6 months or less. When they complain, same reasoning - you have no childcare help, are exhausted and small children find the trip too much. Follow up that they are very welcome to visit you as you too are disappointed they do not see their grandchildren more often.

i realise this will mean your grandparents see your grandchildren less often which is a real shame and will impact their closeness but having overstretched parents who are constantly exhausted is not particularly good for you children either. Worse, I would suggest actually. Who knows, when they realise you doing all the work for them is no longer an option, maybe they will make an effort themselves.

Then, depending on how unreasonable I feel they are, I might feel like bringing up with mum that you find it insulting that you only hear from her when she wants something from you and you feel used. Likewise I might suggest to the in-laws (or get DH to do it even better) that it is unreasonable of them to expect very small children and 2 people who work FT and care for small children to make that trip so frequently when they are not willing to do it even once themselves and that it seems like they really want to see their grandchildren unless it means they actually have to make any effort to do so.

I've always been on the side of the grandparent, that they deserve their own time but you bring up a great point. If our parents are going to expect them to run around after them then shouldn't they help out a bit too?

It was just an idea because I know Mumsnet disproportionately attracts wealthier posters (based on the income threads and the threads about sending the kids to boarding school) and always see people talking about grandparents not being interested in their grandchildren on here.
That's not my experience living in a town of ordinary wealthed and poorer people. In fact like I mentioned in another comment I see some 80 year old grandparents doing way too much bless them every school pickup, cooking them dinner every day etc.

So is it less of a boomer grandparent problem and more of a wealthy grandparent problem? When you're used to cruises and holidays why would you want to give that up for the grandkids? Idk just trying to understand the mindset

Some of this thread is a really sad read. GPs should WANT to have a close relationship with their GC.
I am incredibly lucky that my parents are both retired, and they absolutely adore my little boy (as he does them) and like to spend as much time with him as possible. They pick him up from nursery 3 days a week until I get home from work about 5pm. There's also occasional sleepovers, which they all love!
They have the same close relationship with my niece and nephew who they still provide childcare for, albeit this is less often now the children are 9. They still have regular weekend sleepovers, though - at least a couple of times a month.
I just feel so incredibly lucky to have the parents I do.
Another huge thing is that my son is adopted, and my partner is also a woman, so he has two Mammas but no dad. The close bond he's developed with my Dad is incredibly important because my Dad is his father figure, so I am extra grateful for that. The term 'It takes a village...' is very true for my son and his cousins. I thought this was true for most families, but after reading this thread I realise how privileged we really are!

@RosesAndHellebores - we too spent a lot on dds education blah blah blah. We childmind because we want to, no entitlement here. Our grandson knows us, squeals in delight when he sees us. It’s a different bond, a loving bond.
Why wouldn’t you help out to give your children a break?

When you add the necessity for 50+ years of full time working to the mix, it's simply too much to expect women (and it always seems to be women) to also add caring for children, elderly adults and grandchildren into the mix.

100% this. I wonder how much this underpins global birth rate decline, too. A big factor in my not wanting to have children was not wanting to be on the hook for providing childcare for decade after decade as grandchildren follow children. Especially on top of a retirement age which I suspect will be in the mid-70s by the time I get there (by which point I’ll have worked for 60 consecutive years).