Modern grandparenting double standards

[TheCalmQuail]

I'll preface this with yes I know that my DC are my responsibility and I shouldn't expect childcare, but it would be nice if it felt like GPs actually wanted to spend time/get to know DC/help occasionally.

Its come up in a few conversations with other parents recently about how little time their DPs spend with their DC, especially in comparison to when they were younger and at their GPs daily. Myself included, I avoided nursery completely when my DM went back to work because free daily childcare from a relative, and some of my happiest regular memories are spending regular one on one time with my Nana.

I realise GPs are entitled to their own lives, but the lack of help does seem like double standards, when a large majority have seemingly had so much help themselves.

I love my DM dearly but I'm surprised at how little effort she puts in, she relocated to live down the road from us and I barely see her unless she needs me. It often feels like she's an extra toddler as I have to suggest stuff to tempt her to do anything together; I manage the logistics, drive her there etc. She will be there for emergency childcare requests when possible. But I'd love her to be a bit more proactive, if only just to give her and DC more time together, as they adore her. And on the flip side I regularly help her out with her home, tech issues, pet sitting, I've built her a website and saved her thousands on setting up her part time business. I also am always the one to invite her over for meals, it's never reciprocated. I'd love her to nip over and take DC to the park, or for a hot choc once in while, just because she wanted to see him

Similar for PIL, we make a +200 mile round trip every 6-8 weeks to see them. MIL will often very bluntly tell us how knackered we look, but they've not once offered to take DC for an hour or two whilst we're there, or suggested me and DH go for a coffee/have a bit of time as a couple. I don't think they've changed a single nappy in over 3 years. Yet they expect us to schlep a toddler across 4 counties on the regular out of obligation.

I absolutely know this is #notallgrandparents as my DB ILs also relocated nearer to him. They have their GC one day a week and regularly on weekends, they do the majority of school holiday childcare and are still often asking for extra sleepovers and time together with their DGC. Which is all a lot more than I'd ever expect.

I know this will be a marmite subject, but really AIBU? Surely the idea is to pass on the help and generosity you received, to help the next generation?

In fairness to @TheCalmQuail she literally listed the ways she helps her DM in the OP.

My nan did a lot of childcare when I was little and she was an 'older' nan.

My mum is a 'young' nan and works full time hours (over 4 days) looks after my DD 1 day a week.

I'm not sure it's an age thing. I think it also depends on family dynamics. My parents love having their GC and looking after them, they couldn't imagine not. I think it's to do with attitude in a lot of cases. My ILs live too far away to offer childcare, but even if they lived closer they've made comments suggesting that it wouldn't be for them, both retired...but they're more self centred (shoot me for saying this, but it's the truth)

By no means do I think childcare should be expected, but I do think it creates such a lovely bond between GC and GPs...and allows them to make lovely memories.

I know I'll get flamed for this but just sharing my experience!

Not in my family. My granny was always around and we spent every holiday with her while my parents worked. When I had my children, my mother was only 45 but gave up work to look after them for me when I went back to work and my husbands parents were always available for babysitting at weekends if needed. Now I have a grandson who I have 2 days a week plus he’s here at least one weekend a month for sleep overs too.
It would have been a real struggle for any of us to do it without the help from the older generations.

Interesting.
I was 35 when I had my first child, 39 my second. At 45 I had just gone back to work full-time.

Your mother must have been very comfortably off to have lost 20 years of potential occupational pension and some of her state pension entitlement.

Our DC were 5 and 8 before DH and I went away alone to a wedding for one night. Both sets of grandparents cared deeply about their grandchildren but they weren't available or geographically close enough for stop-overs in the early years or regular childcare care.

My mother once prioritised a hair dressing appointment over helping in an emergency. Whilst I shall not provide formalised day care for prospective grandchildren, I shall never do that.

It's a shame that grandparent relationships, commitment and obligations seem to be judged by each individual's local expectations rather than in the round. We all have different circumstances.

I'm surprised by so many young grandmothers (and its always the grandmothers) who could afford to give up work to care for grandchildren with all the risks to their financial future.

When I was a small child all of my living grandparents were in full time work so we only saw them at weekends . When I had my children one set of grandparents had retired, the other a couple of years later but neither lived nearby to provide regular childcare so it was all a bit moot.

We managed just as our parents had managed - paid childcare, rare nights out and visits to grandparents which were for spending time with them rather than for them to take care of the DC. Most of our friends were similarly placed, those with nearby grandparents benefitted from a bit more babysitting and sometimes a school pickup once a week but for regular childcare it was minders, nannies or nurseries.

Now that our DC generation is having children its much the same - grandparents if nearby are often still working, often also caring for the older generation and so may provide ad hoc help but are not substitute childminders.

Its only on MN where apparently everyone over 60 is retired on six figure pensions taking five cruises a year and uninterested in children and grandchildren. I assume that is an indicator of their scarcity in RL.

My mum was definitely not comfortably off and she did sacrifice lots of years working where she could have built up her pension hit she wanted to do that. Mum and dad were of the generation where they shared everything so his money was hers to share as was his pension so not even sure she gave any thought to what she would be giving up. They always lived within their means and never had a penny of debt in their lives apart from their mortgage.

I think what you say is interesting. Effectively your mother invested her life in supporting you rather than providing for her own retirement/old age. Presumably then you have no issue with all of your parents saving funding their elderly social care if and when the time comes?

It's so interesting on here that it's asserted more working class people are more caring. I would assert that there are more collective living arrangements and less independence and personal responsibility.

DH and I werenin our 30s when we had children and had them when we knew we had the means to provide for them to provide paid for childcare. It was not something we expected our mothers to provide and they could not have done so because they were too far away. That did not however prevent them from having good and loving relationships with their grandchildren. They just didn't have to sacrifice anything of themselves to do so.

But you can have a bond with grandchildren without doing " childcare".

I take DGS out places and we do stuff together but it's not childcare ( it's done when something happening I want to share with him rather than for his parents convenience) 😀

I agree. I also think a relationship with a grandparent (or anyone tbh) that involves regular long hours of childcare is different in other ways from one with a relative who doesn't provide that care. Not necessarily better or worse but people who care for children very regularly for long periods of time act more 'in loco parentis' and that can mean behaviour changes on both sides - more challenging behaviour from the child, more need for rules from the relative etc. I'm not saying it's a bad thing before anyone jumps on me but it is different. I also don't think it necessarily means the bond is closer either, it's just different.

@Gogogo12345 so your mum does her 35 hours in four days. That's four days of 8.75 hours, likely out of the house for more than 11 hours a day, depending on the commute. Then does a whole day of full on childcare on her day off.

That must be exhausting and is unlikely to be sustainable. I have seen people at work do similar and they end up Ill because ultimately they are working the equivalent of 43/4 hour weeks - more if their work role is a professional one and 40 plus hours are expected.

At 64 I can appreciate I don't have the energy I had in my 20s/30s/40s and I have a lot more energy than people in their early to mid 60s.

As a grandparent I have the opposite experience.
I had absolutely no help help from my family or my in-laws family. I loved them but didn't expect , want or get any childcare from them.
And my parents didn't get any from their parents.
However I have provided childcare for my grandchildren. This has been my choice because I have been able to and I wanted to.
. Some of my friends have made different decisions. Neither of us are wrong or right.
But I do think parents are wrong to automatically expect childcare from their parents I find that a very strange concept.

Think you are replying to wrong person

Apologies shoukd have been to @CookieMonster28

The fact that she could give up work aged 45 means she was more privileged than most people. Even in families where couples share everything, it’s increasingly hard to support 2 adults on 1 salary. So, I would suggest someone who can afford to do that is quite comfortable!

And if she wasn't comfortable enough to give up work at 45 to look after grandchildren without putting her future security at risk why would you let that occur instead of taking responsibility for your own childcare needs?

Well considering you never knew my mother and what her wishes were, I’m not sure why you are so triggered by her choices. I was more than happy to take responsibility for my childcare needs, but she wanted to do if.
It’s only on mumsnet that women are vilified for not having stellar careers with huge pensions and are judged for living traditional lives where the husbands earns the money. In the real world, it happens all the time and believe it or not, some women are happy with these arrangements.

Triggered is a very strong word.
It is lovely when grandparents want to do childcare.
Nobody is suggesting there’s a problem with it. It’s fine if they want to be a SAHP and of course fine if they wish to give up employment for grandchildren.

The point is that it’s privileged to be able to give up work and in this day and age. To be able to give up work for grandchildren (when it’s not like you’re saving yourself money in childcare!) is unusual.

Do they know you would welcome more help / visits? Maybe they think they are being tactful by not "interfering".

Yeah my PIL haven't offered to help us at all. They made a big song and dance beforehand about how they wouldn't.
Makes me sad.

It’s their choice to be involved or not involved and their loss. Stop enabling them and spend time with your kids rather than running round after parents.

I guess everybody just approaches things differently, rather than it being a new thing. Lots of posts on here with very involved grandparents and lots with totally uninvolved grandparents. My own grandparents moved 60 miles AWAY from my mum when she had her first child 50 years ago, having previously lived just a mile away. No falling out or anything, but I guess they just wanted to be the once a month type of grandparents.
Do you have anyone in your wider circle who may be pleased take on some of the grandparent role OP? My kids' grandmothers both live on a different continent, but we have some lovely older neighbours that love spending time with our kids. Including having them over on their own for baking (which I do not like doing with my kids) and board games, and even coming to the school Christmas concert. They have even taken the kids to school or picked them up when there have been childminder or bus issues. This is three different sets of neighbours. We have always been reluctant to ask, but found they were delighted to be involved!

I've done my child caring with my own two.when I'm not at work I want to relax not deal with toddlers. I also work with kids

The other side of it, from my observations, is that expectations of this generation of parents of grandparents has increased. Maybe that's in part due to the increase in women working more hours when they have younger children (either by choice or necessity). Is that fair? If you didn't check with your parents if they'd be available to meet your expectations before you conceived, then I don't think it is. You chose to make your parents grandparents whether it fit with their lives or not. They didn't get a say yet get expectations put on them about how they will rearrange their lives around your choices.

My parents didn't have grandparent help (due to choices they made, or they would have had plenty). As a result, my parents weren't very care oriented grandparents either, but I never expected it. I would be more hands on and willing to care and help with grandchildren, but that might be more to do with my personality. I don't have to work full time but, if I did, then I wouldn't be as available either.

In the end, I think any help from grandparents is to be considered a bonus, if you have it.

It is. My DP and their siblings were practically raised by their grandparents in both sides, in laws got endless help and full time childcare. But as far as they are concerned, they owe us nothing.

I don't really understand how you can take so much and give so little, with a straight face.

@theforestcalls There's definitely something in this, the expectations of SOME of today's parents. I have a lovely colleague who runs herself ragged helping her daughter out, despite working full time herself in a very demanding role. Her husband, now retired, also helps, as do the other set of grandparents. Nothing is ever right though, the daughter is always complaining about something (I.e. they put the 3 yr old down for his nap 1/2 later than the daughter specified). This was when they had given up a whole weekend so the daughter and son-in-law could participate in various kid-free activities.