To stipulate minimum number of nights at home for DD?

[teenmumstress24]

DD turned 18 a few months ago. Her 18th birthday coincided with her meeting a new boyfriend who she is inseparable from. She spends around 1-3 nights per fortnight at home, and that's only to sleep / occasionally grab food or a shower. She doesn't converse with anyone (unless to ask for lifts or to borrow cash), and she certainly doesn't do any housework. Since this time there have been numerous issues and arguments; mostly around the following themes:

• constant requests for lifts from me or partner (although this has declined since her boyfriend passed his driving test a few weeks ago as he's seemingly the taxi now)
• never doing any housework
• never being at home long enough to converse with anyone and all her interactions being requests for something
• letting me and her little sister down after agreeing to do something with us and then dropping us in favour of the boyfriend (little sister is only 3 so doesn't understand and gets very upset about her big sister not being there)
• more recently me and my partner (her step dad) we're both told to "fuck off" when we were unable to facilitate a lift whilst juggling bedtime and household tasks between us after work one evening (she later apologised for this; but it's left a very sour taste)
• boyfriend got involved in disagreement following the above incident, and whilst I was the on the phone to her during a heated discussion about that, I was apparently on loudspeaker as I could hear the boyfriend chirping up "just hang up on her" (to my daughter about me)

I'm at my wits end and I can't take anymore. I've contact the GP for some medication to take the edge off because I feel so low and as though I've basically lost my daughter. I've tried telling her miss her, I'm sad about it all, I want her to spend more time at home, etc. She still doesn't. All I get from her is, "it's normal for me to want to be at his house more often he's a new boyfriend". However, she makes time for her dad, her dad's side of the family, my sister (her aunt who's she close to), her friends, and her boyfriend. The only person she lets down and seems to not want to be around is me.

She pays no board (she's at college and works part time earning only about £70-100 a week so I've never taken any money off her). I pay for her phone contract. She doesn't contribute to the food shop here but does buy her own takeaways etc . Her only regular bill is a gym membership.

I've suggested to her since she appears to not live here anymore that she moves out and pays her boyfriends mum board? The response was "I don't want to move out". But 1-3 nights here a fortnight on average would suggest she pretty much has moved out. She has the largest room in the house and it's just wasted space, it's never occupied.

My AIBU is, would I be unreasonable to stipulate that if she wants to continue to live here that I put in place the following rules:

1- she actually occupies her room more regularly than 1-3 times a fortnight? So set a minimum number.
2- she pulls her weight with household tasks and until I see her doing so on a regular basis without any prompting or nagging, I will charge her board. I will stop charging board once she pulls her weight regularly.

Does this sound reasonable? My head is a total mess with it all, I'm struggling to disentangle the emotion from the practical side, so it may come across as garbled. I'm not a good place with it all tbh as I feel so lost and as though she just dislikes me for some reason 😔

Any help appreciated.

@Sweetpeasaremadeforbees AIBU can be brutal however as I said many, many pages ago - the OP has received so many intelligent and insightful responses which she chooses to either disregard or discredit, if they don’t fit her fixed narrative. She has been very attacking and outright nasty to posters, for example trying to discredit my job, when they offer an alternative perspective. How we communicate on here does provide an insight into our communication offline, and it is no surprise to me that the OP is struggling with her daughter. She continues to take absolutely zero responsibility and not reflect on her part in the dynamic at all. I think posters have been very patient, especially considering how rude and aggressive the OP has been. I frequently post in AIBU and had nothing but good intentions and well thought out posts for the OP, who either ignored my posts and then responded with nastiness I’ve never experienced on MN! Posting here was probably not helpful for her mental health, rather than recognise this and move on she continues to post here, attacking posters whilst painting herself as a victim. No consideration of the dynamic she has even created here on this thread - which is actually quite similar to the one with her daughter!

It has been fascinating to observe the amount of people enabling the OP, and encouraging her dislike and paranoia towards her daughter’s boyfriend. No one has said that it is acceptable to be sworn at by your child, and people have had empathy for the OP’s feelings of rejection, but it is always wise to self reflect and consider our role in a dynamic. Particularly as the OP has stated how emotionally impacted she is by her daughter’s 8 week relationship, which seems a very strong reaction and is likely linked to past events/traumas. It is important to have insight into these experiences so that unhelpful patterns are not replicated, and also so that the OPs daughter is not negatively impacted by the OPs mental health difficulties. The ‘be kind’ brigade are well-meaning but just serve to keep the OP where she is (angry and unhappy, blaming everyone else) rather than consider alternative perspectives and causes of action which may be helpful. Often the greatest kindness is saying something difficult, that the person may not want to hear, but can be more helpful long term if considered. It is no wonder many of the more insightful posters left many pages back, their words fell on deaf ears. The OP has not painted herself in a good light at all, hopefully she can get some distance from this thread and look at it more objectively in time. And most importantly, seek psychological therapy if she has not already done so. Being a parent to a teenager can be massively triggering for many reasons, particularly if you have a history of interpersonal trauma, and there is no shame at all in seeking therapy to navigate your emotions during this tumultuous time.

Or, just blame the boyfriend.

That's a really good point and might be a good way forward.

@teenmumstress24 your instinctive response - even just in your head - to get your daughter back to who and where you want her to be was to make threats about her room, board, moving out. This is emotionally manipulative behaviour. Even if you don’t act on it, your automatic thoughts on someone hurting your feelings is punishment.

That can be a trauma response or a sign of immaturity. I’m guessing given your earlier references its trauma in your case.

We are hearing how you feel, what you want, your pain. You’ve sidelined any query about how your daughter might feel, saying you gave her everything and have been the best mother, the problem is her making you feel bad because she wants a life that doesn’t include you right now.

The only thing you’ve quoted verbatim from your daughter is fuck off / bratty behaviour.

I can only see positive references to your daughter from when she was behaving as you want. No one changes that drastically in 8 weeks so she’s either always been the bratty person you are portraying here but at least biddable, or she’s a normal teenager who is being a bit self centred and trying out being an adult for the first time, which you don’t like.

If you had a very close relationship for the first 9 years of her life, she may not feel able to say ‘I want to be with BF and his mum because I do feel left out here. I do feel like a spare part’ if this ‘new’ life has made you happy in a way the old life didn’t.

If the way you are responding to the situation and valid criticism on here is how you usually react when things change or you are upset, even if you think you hide it, there’s no way she would ever have that conversation with you.

You’ve referred to your daughter as an adult several times - when it comes to pulling her weight in the house - but want to make demands on her as if she is a child when it comes to your emotional needs.

Instead of woe is me, everyone is being so awful, put that energy into seeking out a trained professional who can give you the tools to manage your reactions because they are not commensurate with what is happening but will result in damage to your relationship if you don’t change course.

@IdaGlossop @HelloWorldItsNiceToMeetYou
No I haven't invited him here as yet but it's something to consider, thank you

1. You have mentioned the fake tan smears many times, but I think this only happened once? You are I think focusing on fairly trivial incidents as hooks to explain how you are feeling. This is why I think you need more support to look at your feelings.
2. Tell her you want her to wash her own clothes if you want. Personally I would not as your relationship at the moment sounds poor.
3. EVERY parent I know complains about plates and cups not being brought out of the bedroom of teenagers. Its annoying, but common. If she is not spending much time there, there cant be many plates and cups, so I would just let this go for the moment.
4. I would not be hoovering once a week a room I barely spent any time in. Generally its better to let teenagers decide what they do with their own rooms unless it would actually attract vermin.

I agree, but I can't change AIBU, so I just try to support the OP to counteract the rudeness.

To those who genuinely care and would like an update: daughter is home, her friend is with her. I plan to have a heart to heart with her once friend has left as she isn't planning on going out tonight. She's currently playing with her sister and has asked me if she can do anything to help (!?), which was pleasantly surprising. I will update following my chat with her.

@toucheee thank you x

You've done nothing wrong as a mum. I was like your DD at 17 when i met my first serious bf.
It won't last. But in the mean time just ask her to tidy up the shower after herself and tell her that as she is never there you'd like her to swap to another bedroom so you can make use of the space.

I'd still do her washing but only IF i was putting a wash on anyway but that's just me.

I wouldn't pay for her phone though, she is earning and 18 so that's her bill now.

Good luck OP😘

But from what you’ve said, she’s not in the house too often to be making a mess. Just going her dirty laundry back in her room each and every time.

Or your DD could invite him if you reassured her that he would be welcome.

@CandyMaker
The bathroom is generally left in a bit of a state when she's used it and she doesn't clean it unless nagged, so more than once. It's obviously not the most relevant part of the entire thing, but since you commented on it happening only once.

To be fair OP, there have been a range of posts and some have been horrible granted and some have had sympathy and empathy for your position. Some others have tried to give advice which you come across as not wanting to heed. I see you’re still blaming the boyfriend because he’s the only difference which, looking at it black and white, is true but this isn’t black and white.

I have offered anecdotal advice because I’ve been that teen. I could see how it was breaking my mother but I also could see that I wasn’t responsible for her reactions and I was in loving relationship where I was doing nothing wrong. I understand to you it feels like your world is falling apart but it’s not and you have to, for your daughter and for you and all your mental healths deal with this better. It’s hard in the middle of it and it doesn’t make you a bad parent, especially whenever you believe it’s coming from a place of love, my mum did too but it nearly wrecked our relationship and it was only saved by the fact that my mum apologised and took full responsibility for it for putting her feelings and fears ahead of mine.

I noticed you mentioned your dad and your step-mum, and not your own mother.

Is it possible that if you didn’t have this stage with your own mother, you’re taking this very normal teenage behaviour as a rejection because you haven’t experienced it from her side? Like lots of people have said, teenage girls and their mothers are often horrible to each other and then get close again when they’re older, it’s a really normal dynamic (unfortunately!!)

To those who genuinely care and would like an update: daughter is home, her friend is with her. I plan to have a heart to heart with her once friend has left as she isn't planning on going out tonight. She's currently playing with her sister and has asked me if she can do anything to help (!?), which was pleasantly surprising. I will update following my chat with her.

Well that sounds more positive OP, hope it goes well.

@almay I don't wish to talk about my own mother, thanks.

Okay this could be improved.
You mention though that you lived with your step mum. I wonder if that experience is affecting how you are reacting to your daughter?

Absolutely, sorry I should have said not something to answer but maybe have a think about

Maybe it's a communication issue - and try things like this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Talk-Teens-will-Listen/dp/1853408573

My Mum picked fights - some justified most could have been avoided -with older sibling around this age - then when he wouldn't commit to doing what she wanted - she did same as you did do you want to move out he heard move out - and did so into a squat - it was 90s fucked their relationship to this day TBH.

I'm surprised you are surprised she staying away TBH - when she round you seem to be nit picking round housework and having conversations suggesting idea she not welcome. Moving out this day and age not really viable - so she staying away and avoiding you - to avoid arguments and being kicked out - that what I learnt to do as well though I couldn't stay away rural location I stayed in my room as much as possible and clung on till uni getting more withdrawn and then told them as little as possible.

She’s meaner and ruder to you than other family members because you are her safety person. She knows you will always be there so like a teenager she treats mum the worst. I was mean to my mum when I tried to spread my wings - teenagers are basically grown up toddlers they act the worst for mum as they feel safest around mum- an annoying irony of being a mum.

It’s new young love don’t change her room as she needs to know she has her safe haven to return to if things go badly with the boyfriend. She will come back to you and want to spend time with you eventually - just don’t push her away while she’s spreading her wings

I think it sort of goes two ways, yes you have every right to want to spend time with your daughter that than being used as an occasional hotel however the flip side is you need to be interested (or pretend at least) in her life and that includes her boyfriend. I've been through the first loves stage and the key for me was getting to know the boyfriend de jour. (i admit slightly complicated by having a little one in the house). Invite him over, get to know him, accept that she is smitten.

I know it probably won't last and I'm not suggesting that you invite boyfriend s around after 2 dates but once they are established I embraced the situation and it meant I had a happy house. My dd is still with her dp she met at 17, 6 years ago and have their own house

When I was 18 and in college I used to spend every weekend at my boyfriends house, I think that's quite common. I did come home during the week though but obviously spent a lot less time at home. I moved out about a year after starting uni too but my parents never had a problem with me spending time away from home/spreading my wings etc.
Could you sit down with your DD and just tell her how you're feeling? Be honest but not too much and just say how it makes you feel? If I knew my mum needed a bit of TLC and was feeling a bit low I'd 100% have made the effort. She may just not realise how much it upsets you

No, absolutely not. None of us are perfect are we. Which is why I suggested to OP it might be wise to pick her battles and separate any issues with the daughter behaving unacceptably or leaving the place in a mess when she is home (which is about basic consideration for others) from the emotional hurt OP is feeling about her being with the boyfriend more and home with the family less, as those are OP's feelings that she needs to deal with herself, and not make her daughter responsible for them.

I know what you're going through is incredibly painful. However, for you own sake, I wouldn't change anything for now. It could backfire. She won't understand your motivation and could think you've decided that she matters less if you give her room away.

What happens if the relationship ends? You need her to feel that she can return to you and that nothing has changed. If you do anything now she could resent you.

You don't have to be wrong for her to feel that anything you do is wrong. Hopefully she'll come to her senses.

It must be unbearable for you.

You need to make it clear to her: this is a family home, and everyone has to contribute. It’s not a hotel where she can expect everything to be done for her. She needs to start pulling her weight and taking responsibility for housework and chores.

Even in shared living arrangements, like renting a room, there are basic expectations for cleaning and helping out. It’s not fair for her to leave everything to others—being part of a family means sharing the workload.