To stipulate minimum number of nights at home for DD?

[teenmumstress24]

DD turned 18 a few months ago. Her 18th birthday coincided with her meeting a new boyfriend who she is inseparable from. She spends around 1-3 nights per fortnight at home, and that's only to sleep / occasionally grab food or a shower. She doesn't converse with anyone (unless to ask for lifts or to borrow cash), and she certainly doesn't do any housework. Since this time there have been numerous issues and arguments; mostly around the following themes:

• constant requests for lifts from me or partner (although this has declined since her boyfriend passed his driving test a few weeks ago as he's seemingly the taxi now)
• never doing any housework
• never being at home long enough to converse with anyone and all her interactions being requests for something
• letting me and her little sister down after agreeing to do something with us and then dropping us in favour of the boyfriend (little sister is only 3 so doesn't understand and gets very upset about her big sister not being there)
• more recently me and my partner (her step dad) we're both told to "fuck off" when we were unable to facilitate a lift whilst juggling bedtime and household tasks between us after work one evening (she later apologised for this; but it's left a very sour taste)
• boyfriend got involved in disagreement following the above incident, and whilst I was the on the phone to her during a heated discussion about that, I was apparently on loudspeaker as I could hear the boyfriend chirping up "just hang up on her" (to my daughter about me)

I'm at my wits end and I can't take anymore. I've contact the GP for some medication to take the edge off because I feel so low and as though I've basically lost my daughter. I've tried telling her miss her, I'm sad about it all, I want her to spend more time at home, etc. She still doesn't. All I get from her is, "it's normal for me to want to be at his house more often he's a new boyfriend". However, she makes time for her dad, her dad's side of the family, my sister (her aunt who's she close to), her friends, and her boyfriend. The only person she lets down and seems to not want to be around is me.

She pays no board (she's at college and works part time earning only about £70-100 a week so I've never taken any money off her). I pay for her phone contract. She doesn't contribute to the food shop here but does buy her own takeaways etc . Her only regular bill is a gym membership.

I've suggested to her since she appears to not live here anymore that she moves out and pays her boyfriends mum board? The response was "I don't want to move out". But 1-3 nights here a fortnight on average would suggest she pretty much has moved out. She has the largest room in the house and it's just wasted space, it's never occupied.

My AIBU is, would I be unreasonable to stipulate that if she wants to continue to live here that I put in place the following rules:

1- she actually occupies her room more regularly than 1-3 times a fortnight? So set a minimum number.
2- she pulls her weight with household tasks and until I see her doing so on a regular basis without any prompting or nagging, I will charge her board. I will stop charging board once she pulls her weight regularly.

Does this sound reasonable? My head is a total mess with it all, I'm struggling to disentangle the emotion from the practical side, so it may come across as garbled. I'm not a good place with it all tbh as I feel so lost and as though she just dislikes me for some reason 😔

Any help appreciated.

It feels like the issues need to be separated here @teenmumstress24

The disrespect and lack of help with chores when she is there are a separate issue to her not spending time at home/with you because she's wrapped up in the boyfriend.

The reason I say to separate them is because treating you poorly and not pulling her weight when she is there are boundaries that need to be asserted for the good of everyone. But the second thing about how much time she spends at home is about the relationship between the two of you and between her and the rest of the family. Calling her out for being disrespectful or unpleasant/not pulling her weight is one thing, but guilt tripping her for not spending time at home is another. It is normal for her to be pulling away and asserting her independence at this stage, and being wrapped up in a new bf is very normal teen behaviour. Forcing her to spend more time at home is likely to push her more towards the boyfriend. So there's definitely something here about picking the battles you need to have, and the boundaries and standards that are most important.

I am quite shocked that you suggested your DD moved out and lived with a boyfriend she has only been seeing for 8 weeks. That was a terrible suggestion.

You will be getting child benefit for her because she is only 18 and doing her A Levels. That is because you are still expected to financially support her. So charging board would be extremely unfair.

Needing medication to offset panic attacks, anxiety and sleepless nights and wonder if you should threaten your child with downsizing or moving out because she’s had a boyfriend for 8 weeks and isn’t home enough to sit with you and a 3 year old is not feelings.

All of this arises from feelings though, doesn't it? And surely the fact that I've sought advice, albeit anonymously online but still, rather than actually just do any of these things unthinkingly, surely that shows that I'm trying? I'm seeking out support and advice because I'm really lost with it all. A shit mother would surely just go, I don't need advice, I'm right, I'll do what I think. I came here to seek help because I feel lost and that's sort of the point of this forum, isn't it. I think that reflects more about who I am than any perceived "defensiveness" in my posting. Who I am is a mother who cares so deeply and is lost with what to do. That's who I am. If that makes me an awful human, then I'm an awful human 🤷‍♀️ But that's as raw and honest as I can be.

I am just so, so fucking lost and low.

OP ignore those here specifically to goad. They are easy to spot and get a little frisson if you reply so just ignore the losers. You are right to expect better behaviour from your daughter. She sounds rather entitled sadly. Probably had a very easy life and now expects everything while giving nothing. Good luck.

@CrazyGoatLady she is not treating the OP badly. She has been seeing a boyfriend for 8 weeks, so spending lots of time with him. That is all.

@CandyMaker
I asked her if she wanted to, I didn't suggest she should. She immediately said she didn't.

What are you gonna do when she moves out? She won't be able to do household chores or occupy her room X number of times then will she?

@teenmumstress24 A number of people have said that what you need to do is get help for your own issues.

I'm not sure you have.

You've thanked those who have agreed with you, and those who have purely shown sympathy for your situation, but not those who have made constructive suggestions, and not those that have suggested that most of your daughters behaviour is normal and that you may be overreacting.

Lots of suggestions have been made of how your relationship with your daughter can be supported during this time, but it seems all you want to hear is how unfair she's being on you.

It’s a complete and utter overreaction and emotional manipulation even if you haven’t said this to her,

Sorry, but how can something that is in my head and not said to her, be emotional manipulation?! If it exists only in my head then it's, well, my internal thoughts surely? It would need to be communicated to her to be manipulative, so this makes no sense to me.

But why ask her? Sorry I don't understand this as most parents would do anything to stop their 18 year old DD moving out with a very new boyfriend.
You don't have to answer me, but ask yourself honestly. Were you trying to punish her? Or do you just see her as much older than she is and more like a flat mate?

What do you mean what am I going to do? I'm going to do ... nothing? What can I do? But the point is she hasn't moved out, has she.

@CandyMaker

It was part of a general discussion about how few nights she spends here and how we never see her or hear from her unless she wants money or lifts. I said to her "is it becuase you want to move out? Because it's ok if that what you want to do?" As part of me trying to understand it. She replied no that's not what I want at all. And that was that. Nothing at all to do with an attempt to "punish" her. It was my attempt to better understand.

If I'd "laughed in my mum's face" I'd have been looking for somewhere else to live...that very same day.

I trust your own teenagers afford you the same level of respect you seem to have had for your own mother; you clearly deserve it.

@CandyMaker
It was more my attempt to say, look if that's what you want to do, it's fine, like almost giving her the permission she might need to say ok yes I want to move out. But she insists she doesn't. So I was wrong about that.

You sound unreasonable, she will want her room as a base, but if she's not messing up the house then why should she clean it. The biggest thing on the list to me is saying she'd do something with her little sister and not doing it.

@teenmumstress24 Thanks for explaining.
Just to add, the last thing you want to do now is anything that would encourage her to move in with her boyfriend.

I am sorry you did not have a better mum.

All of this arises from feelings though, doesn't it?

Yes, of course, and it's evident you are having a hard time. But kindly OP, as adults and parents, we are responsible for what we do with those feelings. That goes for posters who are horrid on Mumsnet too! Posts on here can trigger people's own stuff, and they might not always be aware of it. I know I've sometimes been harsher than I intended and when I have, it's usually because the post pushed some button or other. Stepfamily dynamics often do that on here I find. For me too, because I have half siblings and as soon as they came along, I was expected to be a helpmate, not a daughter, and I resented it badly. My parents got new partners, and I didn't feel fully like I fitted in anywhere. My first boyfriend was a big deal too for that reason. The first time I felt like I wasn't a tag on to someone else's unit and I had something of my own. I'm not saying that's how your daughter feels - that may not be behind it. But being the only child from an ex relationship in a sea of new families can be hard.

Most posters on here that are actually going to be helpful to you IME will offer a mixture of empathy and pragmatism, and sometimes a little tough love. Sometimes we are so deep into a situation we can't see the wood for the trees, and when we're in that place, sometimes just having your feelings validated isn't helpful, because it doesn't help you do anything differently. It just entrenches you more in a "poor you" place. And it sounds like you really need this situation to change. But we sometimes have to change what we are doing/how we are reacting first, and look at what is in our control and what isn't.

Best of luck with it. Teenage girls are a peculiar breed (I know I certainly was!)

What household tasks are you expecting her to be doing when she's only in a couple of nights a fortnight? Cleaning up after everyone else?

She did tell her mum and partner to fuck off though? And promised to do something with her mum sister and didn't keep that commitment.

Seeing a lot of her bf doesn't in itself = treating her family badly but OP did mention those two incidents and I think being called out for things like that is fair.

I think we've already had this one, but because you haven't read it, I'll reiterate:

1. Cleaning up after herself in the bathroom, eg cleaning fake tan from off the bath / toilet seat
2. Washing her own clothes or at least making some sort of effort to pop a wash on now and then, just so show a bit of willing instead of throwing her stuff in the basket week after week
3. Bringing plates and cups out of her bedroom and at least placing them in the sink if she can't be arsed to put them in the dishwasher
4. Perhaps run a hoover around her bedroom once a week

Mainly those things. I did way more than that at her age so compared to my step mum my expectations are very low!

Coming a bit late to this discussion and feeling for OP. This stage of DD separation from home is behind me now but having been through it, I can reiterate what other posters have said: all of this is normal - hardly ever at home, prefers to be with boyfriend, uses house as a hotel. If the purpose of parenthood is to bring up small humans to be independent, then confident separation shows a job well done.

One thing I haven't seen discussed (the thread is long; apologies if I've missed it) is why the boyfriend is not spending any time with DD at your house. Is that something you could encourage, OP?

I stand by my “poor kid” comment OP. Reading your posts, to me it’s blatantly obvious she’s feeling pushed out and #2. I do genuinely feel sorry for her. You pick and choose things out of context to victimise yourself.

The way you come across, I do not feel sorry for you personally as I think you’re not handling the situation beyond what you need from it.

As for Cinder-fuckin-rella, that comes from Pretty Woman and was tongue in cheek. Which I’m sure you realised but, again, selective context.

I hope you can step back from your emotions and think of the best way to help your daughter, otherwise she is very likely going to move in with an 18 year old she has known for 8 weeks. And whose family, you have not met. While she is studying for her A levels.

The DD apologised for saying fuck off. It was one incident, lets not blow it out of proportion.
The DD also once promised to do something with her sister and did not. Again lets not blow it out of proportion.
You can't expect the DD to be perfect. She will not be.