To stipulate minimum number of nights at home for DD?

[teenmumstress24]

DD turned 18 a few months ago. Her 18th birthday coincided with her meeting a new boyfriend who she is inseparable from. She spends around 1-3 nights per fortnight at home, and that's only to sleep / occasionally grab food or a shower. She doesn't converse with anyone (unless to ask for lifts or to borrow cash), and she certainly doesn't do any housework. Since this time there have been numerous issues and arguments; mostly around the following themes:

• constant requests for lifts from me or partner (although this has declined since her boyfriend passed his driving test a few weeks ago as he's seemingly the taxi now)
• never doing any housework
• never being at home long enough to converse with anyone and all her interactions being requests for something
• letting me and her little sister down after agreeing to do something with us and then dropping us in favour of the boyfriend (little sister is only 3 so doesn't understand and gets very upset about her big sister not being there)
• more recently me and my partner (her step dad) we're both told to "fuck off" when we were unable to facilitate a lift whilst juggling bedtime and household tasks between us after work one evening (she later apologised for this; but it's left a very sour taste)
• boyfriend got involved in disagreement following the above incident, and whilst I was the on the phone to her during a heated discussion about that, I was apparently on loudspeaker as I could hear the boyfriend chirping up "just hang up on her" (to my daughter about me)

I'm at my wits end and I can't take anymore. I've contact the GP for some medication to take the edge off because I feel so low and as though I've basically lost my daughter. I've tried telling her miss her, I'm sad about it all, I want her to spend more time at home, etc. She still doesn't. All I get from her is, "it's normal for me to want to be at his house more often he's a new boyfriend". However, she makes time for her dad, her dad's side of the family, my sister (her aunt who's she close to), her friends, and her boyfriend. The only person she lets down and seems to not want to be around is me.

She pays no board (she's at college and works part time earning only about £70-100 a week so I've never taken any money off her). I pay for her phone contract. She doesn't contribute to the food shop here but does buy her own takeaways etc . Her only regular bill is a gym membership.

I've suggested to her since she appears to not live here anymore that she moves out and pays her boyfriends mum board? The response was "I don't want to move out". But 1-3 nights here a fortnight on average would suggest she pretty much has moved out. She has the largest room in the house and it's just wasted space, it's never occupied.

My AIBU is, would I be unreasonable to stipulate that if she wants to continue to live here that I put in place the following rules:

1- she actually occupies her room more regularly than 1-3 times a fortnight? So set a minimum number.
2- she pulls her weight with household tasks and until I see her doing so on a regular basis without any prompting or nagging, I will charge her board. I will stop charging board once she pulls her weight regularly.

Does this sound reasonable? My head is a total mess with it all, I'm struggling to disentangle the emotion from the practical side, so it may come across as garbled. I'm not a good place with it all tbh as I feel so lost and as though she just dislikes me for some reason 😔

Any help appreciated.

Take her washing out of the pile and leave it back in her room in her laundry basket. On repeat. No need to have a discussion with her about laundry at all.

I’m wondering how the row happened about the lift - was it Hi Mum, I need/want a lift. Oh sorry darling, I can’t now with such short notice. Maybe you could get an Uber/a bus. But great to hear from you, how are how, all well? Why aren’t you collecting me/not fair, etc. Listen darling, not going to argue with you, have to put DD to bed now, see you soon. Bye.

Or was it, Hi Mum, I need/want a lift. Why would I give you a lift, I’m putting your sister to bed. You’re asking for a lift but never do anything for me, we never see you. But Mum…. No, you listen to me, you never help around the house, we never see you, you have left the bathroom a mess, we only hear from you when you want something. Oh just fuck off will you.

Your DD is 18, she has a boyfriend, she has a Dad who lives in another house, she has friends - of course she’s going to be edging away from you somewhat. No doubt it’s more comfortable staying with her boyfriend than the two of them staying over with you, given her boyfriend just lives with his Mum.

It’s hard letting go of our adult teens, no doubt about it but trying to keep a grip on them by nagging and being controlling is the wrong way to go about it. Fondly look back on the days when it was open house with your DD’s friends and realise that it was for a time and it’s now the next stage. Your DD is 18, an adult.

Look at the positives - she has a part-time job, working towards her A Levels, has a good relationship with her Dad and your sister and a boyfriend. Work on your own relationship with her - stop telling her that her sister misses her or that she has to pay for her board/clean/give up her room, etc the minute you see her. Suggest she invited her boyfriend home for dinner one evening, ask if she’d like to do something Christmassy with her sister and give her a few date options. (Don’t tell your youngest DD about it in advance, in case it doesn’t happen). Build up your relationship again at the next stage - suggest a coffee or lunch just the two of you.

You could be my mother, @teenmumstress24. You are totally over reacting to your daughter trying to build a life of her own and lack any awareness of why your daughter might be behaving this way.

You might think that your daughter was happy with a step dad and new sister and she’s only now out of the house and being disrespectful because of her bf but ask yourself why.
This is her first boyfriend and she’s grabbed onto him like someone jumping from a sinking ship. That sounds like someone escaping to me.

Your solutions have all involved emotional manipulation or threats to punish her.

You may think you behave with only sweetness and light and never betray your MH issues but I would bet your daughter has a very different take on things. Certainly your responses on here are not someone who is sweetness and light, but quite self pitying.

She should not be telling you to FO and she should be cleaning the shower but to demand she does chores in a house she is not in much or you’ll take her room/move her out is blackmail.

You are suffocating her under the guise of love and missing her. She is 18. She should be out and exploring the world, not sitting at home with you and a 3 year old.

You seem not to be able to regulate your emotions in a reasonable way even on here and are phenomenally self victimising. None of that is to do with your daughter.

Unless you get a handle on yourself you will lose this daughter and make the teenage years of your 3 year old hellish.

I had a slightly older boyfriend when I was 17, he was 19 on a gap year and I was studying for my A levels, in all honesty after about 2 months, I hated the intensity of it, he wanted to see me all of the time and I just wanted to have fun with my friends, I felt like I was missing out and stuck in something that I was just not emotionally ready for, I therefore think it is fine for a parent to show concern. My Mum is lovely but was newly divorced from my Dad and she was wrapped up in that and worrying about buying a new house for us. I didn't really see my Dad through the whole of sixth form but when he did meet him, he wasn't that happy about it, he said I need to focus on getting into Uni and meeting new people and live a life and in retrospect he was absolutely right!

His mum could feel a bit overwhelmed too and not know what to do about it, op. I daresay she doesn't want to rock the boat.

You really must calm down and look after yourself, getting worked up is doing your health no good at all.

@Dollshousedolly

The conversation went the same way every conversation for a lift does:

Phone rings

Me -hello?

Dd - mum can you or (stepdad's name) pick me up at 6pm from (insert name of place)?

Me - sorry DD but we are struggling this evening juggling everything - stepdad has just stepped in from work and needs to sort sister out, I'm just cleaning x and y, then need to make tea etc etc (insert any number of domestic chores). With a bit more notice we could have maybe. Buses are running, aren't they?

Dd - can you not just pick me up?

Me - Like I said, with more notice we would have..... (cuts me off)

Dd - right, fuck off then (hangs up on me)

That's how that particular conversation went. Other ones start the same, and go along the lines of "yes we will do our best, it will be at x time though", or we send her money for an uber. It's usually one of those two outcomes. However she's already had a fair whack of money off us this month so I wasn't prepared to offer any more for an uber that time as there were buses running,

But, what if your 18 yo DS simply refused to come home and insisted on staying at his girlfriend’s house ??

It’s all well and good saying, no way would I let my 18 yo sleep elsewhere during the week etc, etc - until you are in that situation. The OP can’t drag her home, the girl’s Dad is ok with his DD staying at her boyfriend’s house.

None of us might like the set-up but ultimately, it is what it is and nothing can force the girl back home. It doesn’t sound like she’s financially dependant on the OP, other than the OP paying for her phone, she has her part-time job and her Dad who lives elsewhere.

Trying to control the situation by insisting the girl stays in the OP’s house half the week and has to hand up board and to do chores and suggesting she move to a smaller bed-room close to her A Levels isn’t going to do anything to improve the situation. It will only have the opposite effect.

@Over40Overdating wow you've made a number of assumptions there haven't you. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience with your own mother but I think you're projecting a little there. Thanks for your input though.

Seriously OP. You need to calm down. This is not worth making a drama about. She’s a young woman in the first flush of romance: wanting to spend all her time with him is totally normal. If you are giving her a hard time you may push her into moving in with him (which I would not recommend at that age: voice of experience on that one)

Obviously the swearing is unacceptable, but I have to admit I'd have picked my daughter up if she'd asked. And then had a conversation about more notice etc.

The message I got from that conversation is that she is less important than little sister and cleaning. Maybe you live in an area with better buses than us, but I wouldn't want DD getting a 6pm bus on her own.

What a spoilt brat. Do not give her lifts or Uber money until she learns to act like the adult she is.

Don’t you still get child benefit until the august after their 18th birthday…….you should be supporting your child until a levels are finished and beyond if she goes to uni….your responsibility doesn’t stop dead at 18 …fuck me 🙄

Sounds pretty normal to me - when I met DP I was renting a flat in one town, DP lived in another town about 30 minutes away, I saw my flat about once a month, when I was forced to go back because I wanted something! When I was 18 my 21 year old boyfriend had his own house and my DM wouldn't see me for weeks!

Eventually they'll officially move in together, the honeymoon period will end and they'll remember that they have friends and family or they'll break up and she'll be home.

I would just let her get on with it for the time being and you get on with your life. Don't give in to her demands when she randomly drops in though, she gets a lift if it's convenient and a taxi if it isn't.

It's hard to feel used and the boyfriend does sound awful but I really, really, really think your focus is wrong with this washing business. Of all the battles to fight this isn't it.
Many children bring their laundry back from uni!! It's really not a big deal either, of all the chores doing laundry is not very onerous on you. And at least she's putting it in a pile.

Lifts at the drop of a hat are more problematic and not something you need to indulge. You were right to put your foot down and her rude reaction must have hurt.

I understand your concern about the boyfriend but hopefully they won't last forever. I do hope your visit to the doctor is helpful.

Curious, do you have teenagers? Is this advice from lived experience as a Mum of teenagers?

Why is she 'overreacting', surely she is just reacting to a situation that is worrying her as it is absolutely normal to worry about your children.

If she has 'feelings' what's wrong with revealing those to a young adult, why does a Mum, who is a person on her own right by the way, not get to demonstrate feelings on a situation, even if those are ones of sadness. Talk about anti-feminist. My DS has a girlfriend he's the same age, he sometimes stays over and she sometimes stays here and I do have opinions on it as does my DH, his Dad as we like his girlfriend but like her Mum we are keen for him to do well in his A levels, to achieve his potential so that he can have a happy and fulfilled life. We have the benefit of wisdom and we have a duty of care to guide him, he's fine with that and he's fine with his Mum expressing feelings. He often chats to me about everything and brought me a coffee this morning to my home office so he's obviously not driven away by his Mum having feelings!

Do you claim Child Benefit for her?

Is your daughter doing her homework at her boyfriend's house? If not, that's the only real problem with this relationship that could have long-term negative implications for her future. Her boyfriend is doing an apprenticeship so isn't going down the academic route like your DD is, so it is possible that she isn't being encouraged to study when she is at his house.

Otherwise, I would try and build bridges by inviting your DD and her boyfriend to meals at your house. Treat them as a couple, which is obviously what his mum is doing. First relationships don't tend to be long term but they can be intense and all-consuming.

@Kitkat1523
"Fuck me"right back at you, along with the rolling eyes 🙄

Where did I say my responsibility should stop? Did you miss the part where I said I have paid for her mobile phone and never ever asked her for a penny in board because I would do that whiles she's still studying? I'm asking for a bit of fucking respect back from her, that's all. Apparently too much to ask according to some.

@thepariscrimefiles
No she's not doing her work at his house as far as I'm aware. In a recent parents evening the feedback was consistently that her efforts outside of classes are below where they need to be for her to achieve the grades needed for uni. I've even offered to help her with her coursework - one of the subjects she's studying I am PhD level educated in. She doesn't really take me up on that offer.

I would be upset being told to F off about the lift, it is completely OTT reaction on her part. I feel like people aren't being honest on here as in real life I don't know anybody that would think it's fine to be spoken to like that over such a small thing.

@Goldenbear I agree, and I also think there's a degree of projection going on about posters own situations.

Your comments about it being considered not OK for mothers to be human and express feelings is spot on. Being told to "fuck off" is unacceptable and anyone who is adult enough to throw these insults around surely is adult enough to understand the consequences and where that leaves people. I've done nothing but bend over backwards to support her, as I've said, constant demands for lifts and cash and I facilitate as many as I possibly can, between me and my partner we are driving all over the place for her. And that's what I get when I genuinely can't just drop everything in that moment. It's completely unacceptable and I would never have dreamed of speaking to my own dad like that, I've been knocked into next week!

This was quite sad to read tbh. As a long time lone parent, I see this era of parenting as being so important to the long term adult relationship to have with now teens. I was, I think, a fairly normal teenager but left home at 16 due to so much friction and manipulation, have been no contact for decades and have always been adamant to avoid this with my own. I was just so young and had an awful time in my late teens. I won't be able to do a lot financially to help them as adults, but this is their home - to live in , with no board paid for as long as they'd wish so that they can save and I'll always help ferry them about where needs be to facilitate work, education etc. I've looked after them til now, so am happy to continue! My 18yr old always tells me when he's going out and with who and knows that I'd like random updates on his whereabouts to know that he's safe etc. Sometimes this'll be for long weekends with his girlfriend. And I always do the same with them and let them know what I'm up to. It sets the example of mutual respect and expectations. I offer lifts whenever possible to both my teens - as this is the best opportunity to chat without any confrontation as we're both looking forwards, so no eye contact! They'll ask for lifts too and know it's no earpods time as I've taken the time to come and get them. We'll listen to music in the car, talk about mates, some difficult stuff, fun stuff, attitudes, social media, the girlfriend, contraception, money, news - anything and everything....and then they're home, shower, and probably off out again in a blink of any eye. They know I work hard and have no external financial support but I've also been clear that although they work part time around education and are very self sufficient, if they have any money concerns to come to me and we'll work something out - which they actually don't - but I don't want them falling into anything dodgy. As we've gone through the party phase, I'm always happy to pick them up in the early hours from anywhere. The alternatives don't bear thinking about. It's only by doing these things, that I can really see where they're at - and sometimes that's all they really need and want me for but I love and will always cherish these interactions as they hopefully gently fly the nest when they're ready.
Yes, they can also be a pain in the arse - but I strongly recommend just trying to have a change of mindset to really enjoy who they are right now.

Your daughter doesn't want to leave home...and that's a great thing x

You have a new partner who isn’t her father and a three year old. She probably feels there’s no room for her in your family so she’s clinging to the boyfriend as an escape.

I was this teen.

Basically lived with my boyfriend from 17. I went home occasionally to get fresh clothes etc, but spent most of my time with him. To be fair, we lived like a tiny couple... did food shops, cooked, watched films, studied, we just did it together. His parents took the approach of not minding me being there, but asking for one meal every week - usually Sunday dinner - where I wasn't there. Initially I went home for those, but for some reason I started just hanging around town until he came to pick me up, instead. Mine were a lot stranger, I suspect because my mum missed me, but to me - in loves young dream - it felt like she was making demands and didn't want me to be happy.

Eventually my mum gave my room away and told me if I wasn't going to be at home, I could leave... she did try to change her mind, but it was too late, and I lived with him and his parents for three years. Two years at least too long, to be honest, but I didn't think I had anywhere else to go so I had to keep him sweet to have somewhere to live.

It is tough when they leave, and it's even harder if it was just the two of you for such a long time. She's been by your side for so much of your life, and that just magnifies how hard it is to see her out choosing to be with other people, and make other choices.

My advice would be to keep things as normal as possible, talk to someone about how you feel - because it is a level of dependency that is both absolutely understandable but she will also find stifling and you'll find difficult as she grows - and focus on your toddler for now. Don't emotionally manipulate her. She won't suddenly feel a pang of guilt and have a realisation if you tell her that her toddler sister misses her, she'll just roll her eyes and feel much further away from you. Keep the distance from your side the same. It'll either fizzle out as fast as it started, or it'll stabilise, in time. Don't be a force that keeps it going for longer than it should.

You will get through this, promise. In the meantime, keep everything from your side the same.

And as a random aside - I'd tell my husband to hang up on his mum. I haven't had to, but he often finds calls with her quite overwhelming and distressing, and they aren't productive at all. In that moment, I'd absolutely tell him to put the phone down. He can call back later, they can talk again, but when they both get into that mode - although it's all very middle-class and polite - they aren't achieving anything but winding each other up.

In that case, it would be perfectly reasonable for you to raise this issue with your daughter. Does she know about the feedback from the recent parents' evening was that her efforts out of class are far below where they need to be?

If her boyfriend comes from a family where no-one has gone on to higher education, they might be actively discouraging her efforts as her going away to University would probably mean that their relationship would end.

@teenmumstress24

I don't think it is reasonable to insist that your daughter is home for a set number of days/nights per week. (Though I understand why you would wish to do this and I sympathise with your feelings that you are losing your previous relationship with your daughter.)

However, you would not be being unreasonable in establishing basic grounds rules of mutual respect. This is only natural when you have multiple people sharing a space (which your daughter is technically doing, even though she's currently rarely there.)

In some respects, it seems like your daughter is behaving like a typical teenager in the throes of newfound love. She has only been with her boyfriend for a few months and it all feels fresh and exciting and she's very much in that besotted stage right now. That's pretty much par for the course for most people at the start of a relationship, regardless of how old they are - there's that initial period where you can barely stop thinking about them.

In other respects, however, your daughter seems to be being thoughtless at best and at worst, disrespectful to you. So I think there's nothing wrong with making it clear that there are expectations of a basic decent level of behaviour.

The issue is in how you communicate this to her without it seeming like you're lecturing her or having a bit of of a go at her. You wouldn't necessarily be wrong to have a go at her about it, but practically, doing so would probably only make her angry and bull-headed. So you'd need to think about how you can raise these points with her in a way which is unlikely to make her feel defensive.

I'm very sorry about the emotional distress this is causing you, and you are doing the right thing by trying to seek some treatment for it. If you are already taking the necessary medication, I hope it helps.

If possible, try to get your daughter alone for a bit when she is in the house. I presume on the nights that she is there, she spends some of the time alone in her bedroom? You could go upstairs, knock on the door and ask if you could have a chat. It's important that any conversation you have with her is done from a place of calmness, so I would advise making sure that you are in as calm a headspace as possible before doing so.

I would suggest framing the situation as an issue of mutual respect for each other. You could begin by telling your daughter outright that you respect the fact that she has a new boyfriend and you're happy for her that she is so happy and excited. Make it obvious that you respect her as an individual and understand why, at this age, and in these circumstances, she is enjoying having an independent life away from her parent.

(I'm not saying that you don't already respect these needs of hers, just saying that it may help to literally spell it out to your daughter if you haven't said so already.)

Hopefully beginning with such an approach might might make your daughter more receptive to listening and taking on board the rest of what you have to say. You could bring up the "fuck off" comment, but I would advise not to do so as a telling-off. You could say something like, "I respect the fact that you apologised for it. However, it was rather hurtful in the moment and I think we all need to remember to treat each other with respect." You could outline what you see that as entailing - refraining from swearing at you, making some effort to clean up any mess that she personally makes.

If you frame it as both of you needing to make some concessions (regardless of whether you realistically need to) and communicate it as an issue about mutual behaviour and attitudes all around, rather than just your daughter's, then there's a possibility that your daughter may be more receptive to what you're saying and not interpret it as an attack upon herself.